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Journal of the Institution of Locomotive Engineers
Volume 20 (1930)
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Journal No. 93

Wagner, R.P. (Paper No. 253)
Some new developments of the Stephenson boiler. 5-21. Disc.: 21-47. 12 diagrs.
Opening General Meeting of the 1929-30 Session was held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, 26 September, 1929: chaired by Bazin.
Until the introduction of the superheater, boiler development was simple: the boiler was gradually enlarged, the firebox received careful attention, whilst the major part of the inventions in connection with the boiler were connected in some way or other with the firebox. The Tenbrinck syphon was designed to replace the brick arch and to facilitate the burning of coal instead of coke. Although it gave improved circulation, its unsuitable design and poor workmanship prevented its introduction. Later, a syphon of a better design has proved a success in many cases. Fireboxes without stay bolts had been introduced, and, for various reasons, abandoned, whilst flexible stay bolts have been adopted for many large fireboxes. In spite of all these devices the majority of fireboxes designed nowadays are sti1l representative of Stephenson's original idea, and serve their purpose excellently. The coming of high pressures will naturally put an end, however, to his original design.
It has been practically out of the question to transmit to the water more than 50 per cent. of the heat inside the firebox, the amount usually being in the neighburhood of 40%. On account of the high ratio of heat transmission in the firebox it has become standard practice (and good practice, too) to make the inner casing of the firebox of copper, as this material is an excellent conductor of heat. The more or less flat walls of the firebox are subjected to bending stresses, and they tend to buckle under boiler pressure. It is, therefore, desirable to provide stiffness by making the copper plates as thick as permissible and to employ a suitable small pitch for the stays. If the pitch of the stays is, however, too close, it interferes with the circulation of the water, and, therefore, certain initial rigidity of the flat plates is necessary, and this is more readily attained with copper plate than with steel, which, although thinner, has less conductivity. Wherever steel plates are used, they are very thin; investigation of the steel used in America for the firebox plates shows that it is considerably purer than steel produced from most European ores. Even, however, by the employment of such excellent material, the plates usually become very brittle after some ycars' use. Copper, it will be appreciated, is an expensive metal, ancl for this reason its employment raises the original cost of a locomotive; therefore the German State Railways have continued their efforts to produce a satisfactory steel firebox.
The velocity of gases flowing through the cylindrical pipes of a given length is in a certain relation to the bore of this pipe, or rather to the area of its section, which may be called “A”. The relation is such that, given a certain sucking effort of the smoke box, the velocity increases with increasing area of the tube. On the other hand, the chief resistance to the gas flow in this tube or pipe is the friction of the gases against the walls of the pipe, and this depends entirely upon the surface “S”. With increasing friction or surface naturally the velocity drops, and reducing the friction or surface increases the velocity. .Consequently, the tube area is in direct, and the friction surface in inverse, relation to the velocity, so that the velocity "V" is a function of the quotient.
Contributors to the discussion included Bazin (who chaired the meeting, 21-2);
Maunsell (22-4): "I have endeavoured to make a comparison between the ratios which Herr Wagner has recommended and those which have been adopted in the most recent engines I have built for the Southern Railway. Although the ratios are not quite what Herr Wagner advocated, 1: 400, I can only say that the engines steam well, they are reasonably economical in fuel, and the back pressure is low, but not so extraordinarily low as the figures obtained by Herr Wagner in the engines which he has recently designed. Perhaps the results I have obtained might prove, to a certain extent, the truth of the old saying, that there are more ways of killing a dog than by choking him with butter! There is, however, one point which has an important bearing on the velocity of gases through the boiler flues and back pressure, namely, the diameter of the exhaust pipe. I sould be glad if Herr Wagner would be good enough to tell us how that is considered, when calculating the areas of the ordinary smoke and superheater flues? We have also found from practice that the relationship between the position of the blast pipe nozzle and the horizontal central line of the tube plate, measured both longitudinally and vertically, has a very distinct bearing on the uniformity of the flow of gases through the tubes; and I would value Herr Wagner's opinion on that point also.

In the earlier part of his Paper Herr Wagner referred to steel and copper fireboxes. I can only say that steel fireboxes have not proved a success so far as I know in England, when applied to engines designed for main line service. There have been several cases of small shunting engines with steel fireboxes which. have given satisfactory results, but not with engines designed for main line serdce. I do not believe that the failure is due to the poor quality or the unsuitability of the material which is used. Some years ago I imported from America a number of steel firebox plates, and the results obtained with these were no better than the results obtained from plates made to a similar specification, but manufactured in England. My opinion is that the failure was due to the fact that the fireboxes of British engines are relatively small compared with American engines, due to weight and clearance restrictions, and the rate of combustion per square foot per grate area is relatively high; and, in addition to its higher conductivity, a copper firebox will stand up better to high temperatures and severe conditions of service than a steel firebox. I remember, when going through the Baldwin Locomotive Works, discussing the question of the steel and copper firebox with Mr. Sam Vauclain, the President, and asking him if he ever fitted locomotives with copper fire boxes? Mr. Vauclain said, as far as he could remember that the only boilers to which he had fitted copper fireboxe were those which were intended for use in Cuba and, he added, with a twinkle in his eye, that he thought probably the reason for doing so was the very low mentality of th natives who would have to operate the engines in that island! I did not think that remark was exactly a flattering one to European engineers. We shall certainly watch with interest the performanc, of the corrugated box, which Herr Wagner has illustrated though I am not quite sure how that is going to get himout of the trouble experienced with tube plates. The corrugation of the side and crown plates may possibly hell him with regard to expansion; out I do not see how he is going to be relieved of the tube plate trouble.
Sir Henry Fowler (24-5): I agree with Mr. Maunsell that the Paper we have heard requires a great deal of discussion and also a great deal of thought. To begin with, in the first part of the Paper reference is made to the question of a corrugated firebox, and no doubt the Author will remember that the Jacob box of the Santa Fé Railroad of America was on the same principle, but for various reasons it has been abandoned. In the box with which Mr Wagner is experimenting, I am rather doubtful whether trouble may not be experienced owing to the "breathing' which must take place in the corrugations. Something will probably also depend upon the class of water used, and I think difficulties may arise with water which gives a hard china-like scale which might crack along the corrugation and lead to subsequent corrosion.
With regard to the interesting proposal of increasing the number of superheater elements in the smoke tubes, I would point out that one railway in England has adopted for many years elements comprised of six small tubes in each superheater flue tube as against the normal arrangement. On the old Midland Railway, we have tested an engine so fitted, but it did not meet with the success we had hoped.
Coming to the main point of the Paper, which refers to the proportions of the tubes, one can compare the suggestion of Mr. Wagner of area of free space to area of surface of tube with that of Mr. Lawford Fry, who has, as is well known, done such a great work on the proportions of the ordinary boiler tubes, and who advocates that the ratio between the diameter of a tube and its length should not exceed 1 to 100, and it is interesting to note that in the case of a plain boiler tube, if the ratio A /S is 1 /400, as recommended by Mr. Wagner, this is identical with Mr. Lawford Fry's proposed maximum ratio mentioned above.
I would like to know how the figures on Fig. 9 were obtained, because they are of very considerable interest. It is also interesting to see the efficiencies which Mr. Wagner has given, for after all, one's own children are always much better looking than anyone else's, and I would like to say that on my Company's "Royal Scot" engine, on a run in which we reached l,300 drawbar h.p. and an average speed of about 52 miles, the average boiler thermal efficiency is found to be 80½ per cent.
I have made a tabulated list of boiler proportions which are looked upon as fairly satisfactory and efficient. The manufacturing question comes in with regard to the first three, because they have the same tube plate. We look upon the first boiler; G.7, as probably being the best proportioned one, and it will be seen that the ratios for it vary considerably from those according to Mr. Wagner's proportions.


Type of boiler Length of tubes Distance between  return bends
and back tube sheet
A/S  smoke tubes  A/S small tubes 
G.7S 11ft 1.25in 1ft 1.5in l/393 l/348
G.8S. 11ft 7.375in 1ft 1.5in 1/409 1/365
G9A.S. 12ft 6.375in 1ft 1.5in 1/444 1/394
Royal Scot 14ft 8.8125in 1ft 2in 1/451 1/402
5X Claughton 14ft 2.75in 1ft 0in 1/408 1/360

I have also taken the ratio of internal diameter to length for one of the boilers guoted by Mr. Wagner and I find that this ratio is 1 to 112, somewhat in excess of Mr. Lawford Fry's maximum. I would, however, say that I am not at all in favour of tubes 22 feet in length and of the diameter given.
E.A. Robinson (25-8): The Paper is one of exceptional interest to us all, coming as it does from so well-known an engineer as Mr.  Wagner. I am particularly interested in his remarks regarding the size of boiler tubes and flue tubes for varying lengths of boilers. Generally speaking, in the interests af standardisatian, it has not been found possible to vary the size af those tubes and flues in accordance with what might be the most economical size from the point of view of evaporatian.
In many of the early superheated boilers, having superheaters originally designed by the Schmidt Superheating Company, 51/8in. external diameter flues were used with 1½in. elements. The small size flue tube found on the early boilers, which were generally short in the barrel, had in many cases been carried out, I regret to say, all the most modern boilers. A 1½in. element in a 51/8in. flue occupies 29 per cent. of the area. A 13/8in. element in a 5¼in. flue occupies 21 per cent., and a 1½in. element in 5½in. flue occupies 24 per cent. It will be observed that the small flue tube with the larger element tubing gives a small net gas area and is liable to become choked.
With regard to. Mr. Wagner's statement that when he increased the number af flue tubes fram 34 to 35 and increased their diameter fram 47/8in. to. 55/16in. as against a similar boiler where he increased the number of flue tubes from 34 to 41, but retained the same size, I should have expected that the reason a higher superheat was obtained from the former arrangement was due to the fact that the design had the net gas area through the superheater increased by 19 per cent. over the original design, due the increased diameter flues and 4 per cent. due to one extra flue, making a total of 23 per cent. greater in the gas area; whereas in the other boiler the net gas area was only increased by 20 per cent; in other words, the boiler giving the higher superheat with a smaller superheating surface had a greater net gas area through the superheater.
Mr. Lawford Fry, in his well-known book, " The Study of the Locomotive Boiler," has dealt with the sizes of boiler tubes and flue tubes from the aspect of the mean hydraulic depth. The mean hydraulic depth is the sectional area of the tube divided by the gas-swept perimeter, but does not take into account the length af the tube, as does the ratio A/S given by Mr. Wagner. Mr. Lawford Fry states that "a decrease in the mean hydraulic depth, other conditions remaining the same, will produce a considerable increase in the amount of heat taken up from the gases, and consequently a decrease in the smokebox temperatures."  I think that is why Mr. Wagner obtained a higher superheat in his experimental boiler fitted with flue tubes having a diameter of 63/8in. with six superheater tubes contained therein, having an inside diameter of 29/32in.

R.H. Whitelegg (28-9); W.A. Lelean (29);
H. Chambers (29-30):one statement made by Herr Wagner struck him very forcibly — the combustion chamber, which so far as the German State Railways are concerned, is considered highly undesirable. As a designer, he was very interested, being closely in touch with modern design, and it is a surprising thing to him that a combustion chamber for locomotive fireboxes should be so criticised when, particularly in the locomotives built for the American railways, the combustion chamber is so largely used; Speaking again from the designer’s point of view, I think the adoption of the combustion chamber provides two valuable assets: firstly, it allows the boiler tube to be kept within reasonable length as compared with the inside diameter; secondly, it allows a longer path for the products of combustion, therefore, one may assume that more perfect combustion will be achieved before the gases enter the tubes. Incidentally, there is an increase in the firebox heating surface, but I naturally sympathise with Herr Wagner’s troubles from the weight distribution point of view. I do however think that the efficiency of the boiler should take the first place ; and, probably, the weight distribution troubles might be suitably arranged by a little scheming. It is interesting to note that the Great Western Railway is the only outstanding railway in England which retains the purely rectangular form of firebox for their most modern passenger locomotives, whereas the Southern Railway, the London and North Eastern Railway, and the L.M.S. have all adopted the combustion chamber in, of course, a smaller degree ; but from experience on the L.M.S. they are giving very good results.
Herr Wagner also said that from pulverised fuel very much better combustion is obtained in the same type of firebox than with coal hand fired. 1 should be inclined to say that the improvement in combustion would mainly be due to the difference in firing conditions with pulverised fuel, as there are no doors to be opened, and the air supply can be better regulated and, therefore, I suggest that, with the combustion chamber and pulverised fuel, even better combustion would be obtained. I have great pleasure in joining in this interesting discussion on Herr Wagner’s Paper, which deals with the importance of getting maximum efficiency from the locomotive boiler by giving careful attention to the correct proportions, and the Paper is, therefore, a most valuable contribution to the Proceedings of the Institution.
Mr. J. Clayton (30-2): I am one of those who had the privilege of taking part in that unique visit of the Institution to Germany last year. It was not very long after we entered Germany that we found ourselves amongst friends, and one of the first of these friends to make our acquaintance and to show us the right hand of fellowship on that visit was Herr Wagner. To-night we are particularly happy, not only in having him here, but in recognising that the Institution has done right in making him an Honorary Member of the Institution, and as he is now one of us we may call him not ‘ I Herr ” Wagner but I ‘ Mr.” Wagner. The contribution that the Author has made to the Institution’s records is an extremely valuable one; of that there can be no question. The relation of the diameter or area of the tube to its length, though a simple point, undoubtedly must ha1 e an influence upon the efficiency o f the boiler. Speaking for the practice on the Southern Railway I can say that we have quite a number of engines which really do very well ; and yet, for some reason or other, their tube proportions do not fit Mr. Wagner’s formula. It seems to me that the only way to prove whether Mr. Wagner is right in his conclusions is to build a boiler on the lines laid down. It seems, however, that we require more information than the mere formula. When the Paper is published in the Journal, I hope the Author will include sketches of the various boilers and of the engines to which they are applied, and give full details of the blast pipe and the diameter of the orifice, the size of grate, the heating surfaces, the firebox and smoke box volumes, and the relation of the blast pipe to the chimney and the size of chimney, and so on, in order to complete the story.
In his Paper Mr. Wagner speaks of a “ certain sucking effect.” That sucking effect is caused by the effort of the blast to create the necessary draught on the fire. Then later on he speaks of a very low back pressure 1 to 3lbs. On examining a large number of indicator diagrams the lowest I can find is 5lbs. per square inch. Yet Mr. Wagner is not satisfied with 5lbs. or 3lbs. ; but he wants 1lb., hence my desire for more information. I agree with Sir Henry Fowler in thinking that the condition of the inside of the tube must have some bearing on the question, that is whether they are clean or sooty. Reference is made by the Author to a short boiler, which it is said might have a very much lower back pressure, and I would like to know what Mr. Wagner means by a short boiler. Then the Author says that every German locomotive and every European locomotive “ has attained normal combustion in fireboxes of normal dimensions.” I would like to know here what Mr. Wagner means by ‘‘ normal combustion.” We always have a feeling that our boilers are too small, and are generally lacking in firegrate area and in firebox volume. When getting out new designs, it is the practice to compare the boiler proportions of those regarded as efficient and known to steam well, and from these known facts to deduce the new and improved boiler. We are generally handicapped by the fact that the weight of the locomotive must be kept within certain limits, and yet the chief mechanical engineer wants the biggest boiler possible; and so we have to do the best we can with the various ratios which experience has left to us. With regard to the combustion chamber, I would like to correct Mr. Chambers’ impression because I do not think he is quite fair in referring to the combustion chamber as used on the “ Lord Nelson.” This is not regarded as a combustion chamber in the true sense of the word, but as an extension of the firebox. The combustion chamber that Mr. Wagner refers to is one which enters into, and is parallel with, the barrel, and is stayed to it by radial stays. But the combustion chambers used on the Southern Railway’s *Lord Nelson” and on the “Royal Scot” are not quite of that variety. ’They are extensions of the firebox, and are useful in that respect, for the reason which Mr. Chambers gave, that they shorten the tubes, and give what English engineers regard as a good firebox while keeping the grate within limits. In conclusion I would again like to thank Mr. Wagner for his very useful contribution to our Proceedings, which we shall look forward to reading in full. It has been a great pleasure to renew our friendship with the Author again and to remember how in Germany he did show us real friendship, not only classically and technically, but convivially.
D.W. Sanford (32-3) indicated one difficulty about the formula which Wagner used namely that velocity is the function of area divided by the surface, but which was not clear is in the following respect. Velocity down the tube is by no means uniform from the firebox to the smoke box. The gases start away at a very high temperature at the firebox end, and, therefore, occupy a considerable volume per unit. As they travel towards the smoke box they cool down considerably, and the volume is thereby reduced. Therefore, as the quantity passing must be constant all down the tube, the velocity must be considerably reduced thereby. Thus it would appear that velocity is not only the function of the expression given, but also of the amount of heat transference which takes place. In Fig. 9, it is shown that the gases issuing from the flue tubes are at a higher temperature than those issuing from the small evaporative tubes. Although that formula is, no doubt, all right as it stands, provided one gets the same drop of temperature in both tubes, it would appear that the velocity is not only a function of A / S , but must also be a function of the heat transference; or, in other words, a function of the final temperature at which the gases issue at the smoke box.
H. Holcroft (33-4): (Leeds 40-7): D.W. Harvey (41);
E.W. Selby (41-3) thought that the Papcr was extremely interesting: the formula A/S should be very helpful in improving thc steaming of boilers, which arc apparently large enough, but which do not seem to steam very satisfactorily. He had applied the formula to a number of English engines, and these were shown in a table (not reproduced). It appears, however, that we follow fairly closely the German ratio of 1 :400, rather below than above it. This is what might be expected, since the Germans have always used a long boiler, in order, presumably, to withdraw the greatest amount of heat from the flue gases before wasting them. As regards the close agreement between A / S for the smokc tubes and A\S for the: small tubes, the best figures appear to be thosc of he GWR King George V., the King Arthur and Lord Nelson classes on the Southern Railway, and the standard compound on the L.M.S.R. He claimed that all these cngincs were excellent steamers and very economical. In the case of the LNER. Pacific, the A/S ratio for the small tubes is high compared with the ratio for the smoke tubes. This suggests that these engines would steam satisfactorily with a lighter blast if fitted with larger (say 2¼in. diameter) small tubes,
C.F. Adams (43); A. Hird (43-4); E.A. Newsum (44); S.J. Lucas (44-5).

Shields, T.H. (Paper No. 254)
Locomotive regulator valves. 49-103. Disc.: 103-24; 197-203; 717-19.
Second Ordinary General Meeting of the 1929-30 Session was held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, the 31 October 1929, at 6 p.m. In the absence of the President, J. Clayton (Vice-P'resident) occupied the Chair.
Sixth Ordinary General Meeting of the Newcastle Centre was held in the L.N.E.R. Institute, North Road, Darlington, on Tuesday, the 25th day of March, 1930, at 6.30 p.m.. B. Irving taking the chair.
For many years it had been standard practice for steam generated in the boiler of a locomotive enters the main steam pipe on its way to the cylinders, through the regulator valve. This valve is generally situated in the dome on the boiler barrel, and regulates steam supply to the cylinders by throttling. The regulator valve is controlled by the regulator rod passing back from the dome through the boiler and above the inner firebox to the regulator lever placed on the boiler back plate. A stuffing box is fitted on the boiler back plate which carries the end of the regulator rod, and prevents any leakage of steam through the boiler back plate. The front end of the regulator rod is carried by a projection at the foot of the vertical steam pipe in the dome. Close to this front end of the regulatot rod is either a crank, or eccentric, which operates the regulator valve through the medium of a connecting link.

Ordinary plug cocks were first used as regulator valves: Hedley's Puffing Billy, Foster Rastrick's Agenoria, and Stephenson's Rocket, all in South Kensington Museum, show regulator valves of this type. Samuel's locomotive of 1847 had another form of plug cock regulator for its vertical boiler. Plug regulator valves were abandoned chiefly owing to their frequent sticking.

Stephenson's Locomotion No.1 has a flat regulator valve on each of its two steam chests, controlled by one regulator lever. The driver's handle is connected to a spindle on the top of the boiler barrel, this spindle passing through a stuffing box to the inside of the boiler, where it is attached to a double crank; from this crank a rod is connected to each end, leading to a flat valve on the bottom of each steam chest. Stephenson, later, built a few locomotives with the regulator in the form of a slide valve covering a port on the top of the cylinder steam chest. Daniel Gooch [KPJ wromg Gooch] used this form of valve on the L. & S.W. and Eastern Counties Railways. The steam chest regulator was controlled by a rod passing from the regulator through the smoke box below the boiler, and, by means of a lever parallel to the regulator handle, was brought within reach of the dnver.

In Bury's engines a conical plug regulator valve was actuated by turning a handle in front of the firebox; a spiral groove of large pitch was made on the regulator valve spindle in which fitted a pin attached to the boiler. When the spindle was turned, the steam passage to the cylinders was opened. Another form of regulator prior to 1840 was in the form of a double beat valve placed in the steam pipe leading from the dome, this valve being lifted by a tappet attached to the regulator rod, and one form of horizontal double-beat valve was operated by a double-threaded screw.

Regulators about this time (1840) were generally placed in the horizontal steam pipe, dry steam being led to the regulator from the dome and sometimes from a second dome situated along the. boiler barrel. (This practice of having two steam domes was common on the Continent up till about 1900). The regulator valve itself was usually a rotating disc which had two sector-shaped apertures covered by a butterfly valve; the valve being situated above the firebox required only a short regulator rod. An improvement on this design, credited to Sharp, Roberts & Co. is that, as in modern practice, the regulator valve is itself placed in the dome, and here we have the first instance of the now usual vertical regulator valve actuated by a lever and a vertical link; this being introduced about 1839.

The Crampton regulator valve of about 1848, consisted of an external box on the top of the boiler barrel, steam coming from an internal steam pipe which had a slit along the top. A branch from this pipe entered the box where a double slide valve acted as a regulator valve. The valve was moved by a regulator tod passing along the top of the boiler barrel on the outside. The regulator lever warked in a horizontal guide or sector in the cab. The Crampton regulator was in favour for many years an the Continent. Shield illustrated the position af the regulator on the boiler and external steam pipe to the cylinders: a modified type of this regulator may be seen an the sectional madel of a Fairlie locomotive in the South Kensingtan Museum. In this case, the sliding type of regulator valve is placed at the bottom of the vertical steam pipe in the dome, the regtilator rod passing through a stuffing bax at the back of the dome along the top af the boiler to the cab, the internal steam pipe passing as usual to the smoke box.

Some early forms of regulator valves were situated in the smokebox. In one the body of the regulator was cylindrical, and placed concentrically with the regulator rod was a brass valve, which turned radially with the regulator. The valve, when closed, overlapped on each side of the broad post, but an the steam edge of the valve the edge was shaped as shown; therefore, when the valve opened. to steam, the steam was only admitted at the centre and the full width of part was not uncovered until the valve had moved 1/8 inch over the port, this giving gradual admission of steam to the cylinders. The valve was held to its seat by a small vertical spring.

The sliding type af regulator valve is fixed on the smokebox. tubeplate, the parts being arranged lengthwise, and the valve moving across the ports. Later types of this regulator have been fitted with a pilot valve, a modified form being in use on the G.W. Rly., where steam is conducted to the regulator by a bifurcated internal steam pipe leading from the large steam space above the firebox.

Figures represented the two most common types of regulator valves for domeless locomotives, popular from 1870 to 1890 and still fitted in a modified form in 1930. Like the previous type the regulator was placed as high as possible in the centre of the smoke box tubeplate. The internal steam pipe in some cases reached the full length af the boiler to the firebox back plate, and in other cases terminated just above the firebox tubeplate. The regulator rod, of the pull-out type, passed through the internal steam pipe. The top of the internal steam pipe was perforated with about 250 holes, or less but larger holes. Along tbe top af the pipe on each side of these perforatians two baffle strips were brazed; these were ¾ inch high and served to prevent water from entering the steam pipe through violent ebullition or rough shunting. In about 1870 on the GSWR Stirling used a form of internal steam pipe somewhat similar, but instead of the perforations eight short vertical tubes, one inch diameter, were fixed on top of the internal steam pipe immediately above the inner firebox, the steam passing through these pipes into horizontal steam pipe. Stirling's regulator gear at this time consisted of a vertical lever connected to an external regulator rod which passed along the side of the boiler the smoke box from which another rod passed into the regulator valve in the smoke box. The reverser lever and the regulator handle were both at the driver's right hand, a convenient position.

As regards the regulator valve, the two ports in the cast iron head were arranged transversely, these ports being covered by a cast iron valve with one large central port and two small ports at each end; on the back of this valve a brass pilot valve was fitted, the pilot valve being slightly longer than the main valve. In the Author's experience, this type of regulator was more costly to maintain than the ordinary double-beat variety. A frequent occrrence was their sticking when open, especially the type shown in Fig. 2. In this case the end of the rod passing through the stuffing box on the front, often corroded after a few months' service.

The Younghusband regulator valve is described on p.61 (with diagram). Presumably this Younghusband is the same one who invented a form of valve gear used briefly on the NER. The special regulators fitted to the LMS compounds were described on pp 62 and in pp. 66-7; Stroudley's regulator is described on pp. 63 and 68. Ramsbottom's regulator is described as invented on p. 64 and in its "modern form" on pages 65 and 68-9. Lockyer's patent balanced regulator valve is described on pp. 69-73, Owen's balanced double beat regulator developed by A.E. Owen (p. 73); Zara's balanced regulator (pp. 74-5) (see also Zara); the Joco combined regulator and drifting valve marketed by Wota Ltd and used on the LNER (pp. 74-80); the Buck external regulator valve invented by W.L. Buck in the USA; Chamber's front-end throttle (pp. 82-3); multiple valve regulators as marketed by MLS (pp. 83-8);and  the Servo system invented? by Percy Hulburd (88-9). The locomotive booster as introduced on the LNER required a special regulator system (pp. 94-6). Steam railcars and geared locomotives are considered on pp. 96-102. These included those from Kerr Stuart, Clayton and Sentinel.

In the discussion H. Chambers (103-4) considered that the grid-type "takes a lot of beating"; P.C. Dewhurst noted slight errors in the description of the regulator system for the LMS compounds, and prefered the pull-out type. W.A. Lelean (106-7) advocated the Owen type; defended the Lockyer design and noted that the Joco type was based on quite sound lines. E.A. Phillipson (107-8); advocated pull-out form; A.E. Owen (108-11) spoke about his own design; T.G. Atkinson (111-12); H. Holcroft (112-13) considered that the travel was too short in the ordinary double-beat type and observed that regulator operation must be perfectly safe with no risk of accidental opening. F. Onions (113-15).

Glasgow Meeting (197-203): C.H. Robinson (197-9) had been an improver at Darlington when the Lockyer valve was developed. On the NER the Lockyer regulator was easy to operate, but was seldom steam-tight: leakage was serious. The regulator fitted to the Royal Scot class was easier to operate than theory might suggest. Phillips (199-201 commented on wear in the grooves of the Lockyer type. J.H. Williams (202-3: communication). On page 203 the author noted an error in his description of the Zara valve.
Third Ordinary Gcncral Meeting of thc Scottish Centre (1929-30 Session), was hcld in the Royal Technical College, Glasgow, on Thursday, the 12 December 1929, at 7.30 p.m., . C. H. Robinson, Chairman of the Centre, presiding.

Journal No. 94

High-ptessure compound locomotive, London & North Eastern Railway. 134-6. illus.

New 4-4-0 type locomotives, Southern Railway. 137-40. illus., diagr. (s. & f. els.)

Willans, Kyrle William (Paper No. 255).
Water-tube boilers suitable for locomotives. 157-79. Disc.: 179-96; 411-18; 688-92 + 6 folding plates.2 illus., 22 diagrs.
Chaired by J.R. Bazin. Third Ordinary General Meeting of the 1929-30 Session was held at Denison House Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, 28 November, 1929, the President, J.R. Bazin, occupying the chair.
Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the Manchester Centre (Session 1929-3") was held in the building of the Manchester Literary and Philosophical Society, George Street, Manchester, on Friday, 14 February, 1930, Mr. E.M. Gass occupying the chair.
Fifth Ordinary General Meeting .of the Newcastle Centre was held at the Central Station Hotel, Newcastle-on- Tyne, on Tuesday, 25 February, 1930, at 6.30 p.m., the chair being taken by J.W. Hobson.
Precis from Locomotive Mag., 1929, 35, 381. The author prefaced his remarks with a general survey of the conditions a water-tube boiler should fulfil to prove suitable for locomotive use, classifying the different attempts under four distinctive types, Yarrow, Babcock, Sterling and Niclausse, expressing the opinion that the latter appeared to have much to recommend it for the particular purpose under discussion, although in his opinion it had not received anything like the support in this country it deserved. In his historical notes, the author emphasised the very laudable efforts made some sixty years ago by the Messrs. Perkins to introduce boilers of the water-tube type. Loftus Perkins' boiler was illustrated as applied to a steam tramway locomotive, and perhaps of more interest, a slide was shown of a projected application of a water-tube boiler and the conversion to triple expansion of an old L. & N.W. Ry. 4-4-0 tank locomotive to designs originated by Perkins in collaboration with F.W. Webb, then locomotive superintendent. Another drawing of the application of a water-tube boiler to a Fairlie articulated engine was inspected with much attention. Mr. Willans described very fully the new water-tube boilers being made by Kerr, Stuart & Co. for locomotives, and showed many of the details connected with the construction and satisfactory maintenance of them. He also commented favourably on the Kiesselbach system of steam accumulators and showed suggested applications to locomotives. The chair was occupied by Mr. J. R. Bazin, the president, who, in opening the discussion made some interesting com-ments on the projected application of water-tube boilers to locomotives and his views on the functions they should possess.
Based mainly on Kerr Stuart experimental work on a Perkins boiler, but most of the other small water-tube boilers are mentioned: Sentinel, Clarkson thimble, Yarrow water-tube, Niclausse water-tube the Loftus Perkins tubular steam generator, the Kerr Stuart geared locomotive is shown in Fig. 15. The Kiesselbach system of steam storage was mentioned. The use of the Perkins boiler on tramway locomotives and on a proposed Fairlie articulated locomotive is also considered.
Discussion: J.R. Bazin (179-80) chaired the meeting; E.P. Anderson (180); Loftus P. Perkins (180-1); W.A. Lelean (181-2); S. Hopkins (182-4) who cited Kiesselbach and Druitt Halpin steam storage systems and proposed fitment of Kiesselbach type to the tender of a Churchward 4-6-0. W. Cyril Williams (184) noted that the bulk of the boiler increased with working temperature; D.C. Brown (184-6); A.E. Owen (186); F.A. Boyes (186-7); T. Grime (187-8). On pp. 193-3 Willans described the use of the Kerr Stuart locomotive on the Lochaber Power Scheme as used by Balfour Beatty; F.A. Boyes (193-4); John Riekie (194-6 Communication) Now that a serious beginning has been made to employ extremely high steam pressures in modern British locomotive practice (e.g., in the two recently completed high pressure compounds of the LMS and LNER respectively) the Paper read by Mr. Kyrle Willans on " Water-tube Boilers suitable for Locomotives " possesses a more than usual significance. The Writer has long urged the use of such pressures as tending to the attainment of greater efficiency in proportion to the increase in pressure. It must be admitted that until the last few years locomotive designers the world over have displayed no little reluctance, generally speaking, to raise their pressures. History shows that from time to time a recognised standard was reached which held good for many years. Thus at one period a pressure of 140 psi was an extremely common one, although, latterly, here and there, both higher and lower pressures were in use. Progressively 140 psi gave place to 150 psi, 160 psi, 175 psi, and next to 180 psi, the latter becoming quite as normal a figure as the 140 psi of the early 'eighties. By 1899 a few British engines were running with 200 psi, and since then (not withstanding some retrogression as a result of the introduction of superheating) there has been a decided movement in favour of employing pressures of from 225 psi to 250 psi in locomotives of the orthodox kind. The last mentioned pressure was reached in 1927, but on a limited scale, on the LMS and GWR; even so the average figure to-day is probably still 180 psi. Following, however, the example set by Continental engineers, both Sir Henry Fowler, of the LMS, and H.N. Gresley, of the LNER, have taken a bold step forward in trying pressures considerably higher than any hitherto used in this Country. Sir Henry Fowler has adopted a boiler of the Schmidt two-stage type, combining a highpressure boiler working at 900 psi and a low-pressure boiler in which steam is raised to 250 psi, the latter boiler being of the ordinary locomotive type, with the high-pressure generator, an oblong drum superimposed over the firebox. Mr. Gresley, on the other hand, has decided to try a boiler of the marine water-tube description, specially designed and adapted to locomotive purposes, and constructed to withstand a pressure of 450 psi. These efforts show a great advance on anything previously attempted here. In the same connection the reason for the comparatively slow and gradual progress which has been effected in regard to steam pressures are, of course, well known. Other things being equal, the higher the pressure the more destructive becomes the deleterious qualities of the feed water, tending to shorten the life of the boiler, besides increasing the cost of maintenance. But the greatest deterrent of all to the adoption of very high pressures has been the acknowledged unsuitability of the standard type of locomotive boiler to carry such pressures. owing to the difficulty inherent in the type, of effectually staying the flat surfaces, especially those of the firebox. Where, therefore, as stated by Mr. Willans, pressures of 350 lbs. to 400 lbs. are desired, attention has to be given to devising a boiler of a less vulnerable kind. So far the water-tube boiler, in one form or another, has been turned to as affording a way out of the difficulty. There is, however, yet another class of boiler which should receive careful consideration, and which, conforming as it does to the shape of the ordinary locomotive boiler, does not greatly alter the general appearance of the engine. This type of boiler is one based on the original designs of the emine.nt French engineer, Serpollet, who hit upon the idea of storing up heat for steam raising purposes in a large body of metal, instead of as in the customary method of storing it up in a corresponding mass of water. It will be at once seen that this system, in contradistinction to any water-tube system, is absolutely safe, and permits of the highest possible pressure being used without danger of collapse or explosion. Moreover it paves the way to obtaining a maximum economy in coal consumption, apart from that due to the high steam pressure, as the boiler can be fired on the slow combustion principle. The original Serpollet boiler suffered from the disadvantage that no arrangement was made to keep up a constant temperature in the metal, the consequence being that the impinging water, by gradually lowering the heat content, caused the generator to become flooded when the latter was forced to its fullest output. For this reason the ideal boiler of the flash kind is one in which provision is made to maintain the full temperature of the metal under all conditions of working, and this can best be done by keeping it void of water, even to lighting up the fire. If Serpollet had used multiple generators (coupled) in place of one, and had he devised an arrangement by which the water would be ejected into each manifold alternately, so that the heat could be restored to the mctal before the next injection took place, his system would have proved entirely successful. If it had been thus modified, no degree of forcing could have led to the flooding of the generator. A flash boiler on this improved plan has been made and tried on a small scale, and the excellent results obtained fully justify the Writer in bringing the project to the notice of engineers as being one which should prove satisfactory, no matter how large the installation. An added advantage is that no superheating apparatus would be required in connection with the boiler. Altogether the Serpollet flash system is not one lightly to be ignored; it is safe, economical and efficient, and being suitable for abnormally high steam pressures, it offers a ready and a presumably less costly alternative to boiler systcms of the water-tube type variety, none of which can be said to be immune from the danger arising from failure due to the leaking or bursting of the tubes under the great pressure to which they are subjected.
Newcastle Meeting
J.C. Stopani Stuart: (411-) The Author referred to the limitations of the Clayton, Sentinel, and Clarkson boilers, and in making the statement I presume he had in mind the old type of Clayton boiler Messrs. Clayton have now a threedrum type of boiler called the White-Forster, which is practically a Yarrow xcept that some of the tubes are bent. I would be interested to know if Mr. Willans has any criticism to pass on it or has any knowledge ot how it performs,
Attention has been called to the large heating surface cf the Willans boiler and inferentially to the large ratio of heating surface to grate area. It may interest the Author to know that the ratio is exactly the same as in the old Yorkshire boiler, now so well known and respected on road haulage vehicles. I mention this, however, becausc I have found that this ratio in itself does not convey any idea of the boiler's capabilities. It depends entirely upon the manner in which the builer is constructed. I know of a case, for example, where a boiler with a heating surface to grate ratio of 15 to 1 was altered to facilitate production, and in so doing the ratio was reduced, but the steaming properties of the boiler were, accidentally, improved. In connection with the Author's remarks on advisable pressures, it is interesting to note that Mr. Buchli at the World Power Conference at Tokio stated that an increase of pressure from 210 lhs. to 710 Ibs. per square inch gives an increase in thermal efficiency of from 18 to 24 per cent., but that with a further rise to 2,1401hs. per square inch the figure becomes pnly 28 per cent.;-hence the reason they fixed on a figure of about 8801bs. He also states that the Benson locomotive has already reached the enormous pressure of 3,180 Ibs., and he gives the following figures for therriiai efficiency of known types of high-pressure locomotives :-
Schmidt 20.8 Less for auxiliaries 7.5= 13.3 per cent.
Winterthur 2 5.0 Less for auxiliaries 7.0=18.0 per cent
Leoffler 28.4   Less for auxiliaries 10.5=17.9 per cent
It would be very interesting to see the Willans locomotive added to this list.
Coming now to the consideration of the Willans boiler, lvill the Author tell us how it compares as regards weight, cost, and size with, say, a Sentinel _of the same evaporative capacity.
The Author speaks of burning sugar cane and keeping steam up to maximum load ; does he mean us to infer that it is a practical proposition in such a comparatively small firebox? I have recollection of tests on wood fuel, where, in order to keep steam up to maximum load on a boiler of about similar capacity to a Willans, it was necessary to stoke continuously, practically a piece at a time, through a comparatively small fire-door. It certainly does not appeal to me as a practical proposition.
My experience agrees with the Author's on the question of softening the blast, and it is in my opinion essential where spark-throwing fuel, such as wood, is used. On the other hand, I know that the Sentinel Wagon Co. do, or did, sharpen the blast and, of course, had to provide the always objectionable spark arrester. In conclusion, I wsuld like to congratulate Mr. Willans not only on his Paper, but on the lucid manner in which he explained the troubles he has had and the remedies adopted.
P.W. Bollen (413): Has the Author found it necessary to fit a brick arch in his fireboxes, so that the gases are retained there for a time sufficient to give complete combustion, or has the size of boiler, which has been used up to the present,been too small to need this addition? A feature that is rather noticeable is a similarity which occurs in the fireboxes shown by the Author and the Wood type boilers, which have been built recently for power stations; that feature is the vertical water walls, which seem to be the most important part of the design. Their performances also bear a similarity in their widely flexible steaming capabilities and the extent to which they can be forced. The idea of thermal storage for locomotives is not a new one. In this Country there are a number of engines which have a small valve on the boiler and from which steam can be blown into the water in the tanks for the purpose of heating it. Th,is valve is opened when the boiler is blowing-off, or is tending to blow-off, and is then used as a means of economy. 'The valve is also opened when the engine is standing, prior to making a run, so that the water is heated to near boiling point before it enters the boiler. This means that when the engine is taking its train, the water put into the boiler requires less heat to turn it into steam than would cold water. The effect is an apparent increase in boiler power. The engines fitted with this device have feed pumps to deal with the hot water, as it would be too hot for injectors to work with it.

Bazin, J.R. Presidential Address. 215-28.
Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the 1929-30 Session was held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Wednesday, the 18th day of December, 1929, at 6 p.m., the chair being occupied by the President, Mr. J.R. Bazin.
This historic engine was of somewhat crude appearance, yet it possessed those essential features which have provctl necessary to the success of the steam locomotive, viz., a tubular boiler and firebox surrounded by water, direct connection .between the pistons and driving-wheel crank pins and blast pipe in the chimney. In producing this engine, Stephcnson seems to have aimed at designing a machine that would be capable of much higher speeds than was possible with the locomotivcs already in existence, as he not only used single driving wheels of a larger diameter, 4ft. 8½, than was customary, but also inclined the cylinders at an angle of 35° with the horizontal, instead of placing them vertical, which position had been almost universally adopted in the early locomotives. Later the position of the cylinders was altered to an inclination of 7°, and this position was adopted by Stephenson in the subsequent engines of the Rocket class he built for the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. The Rocket attained a speed of 29 miles an hour at the Rainhill Trials, and carried a pressure of steam in the boiler of 50 lhs. per sq. in.; the cylinders were 8in. diameter with a stroke of 16¼in.; the total weight of the engine in working order was 4 tons 5 cwt., of which 2½ tons were carried by the driving wheels; attached to the engine was a tender which weighed 3 tons 4 cwt. when loaded. Fortunately, the Rocket has been preserved in the South Kensington Museum, where we can inspect with interest the progenitor of the Race of Machines which have since become so necessary to civilisation, and in whose development we, as members of this Institution, take such a professional interest. Since the days when the Rocket first demonstrated, by its success at Rainhill, that the steam locomotive was possible of becoming a commercial success, vast strides have been taken in the development of this railway engine, and it is not my intention to deal here with the various phases it has passed through during the last 100 years there are many exhaustive works and papers on the subject. We, whose lives are spent in its design, construction, maintenance and working, know how very real are the difficulties and problems that daily have to be faced, in order to produce and maintain a machine which impels us by its intrinsic interest to do all we can to develop and keep it in the highest state of efficiency.
It is an extraordinary thing, when fully considered, what a fascination the steam locomotive has for so many engineers, and from the earliest days in the history of railways there has always been keenness displayed even by others than those whose livelihood was bound up in its progress, in following its working and development. This is all the more remarkable when the fact is taken into account that the essential components of all steam locomotives are similar, although from an outward appearance it exists in many forms and types. Moreover, it is such an extraordinarily versatile machine, and can be adapted to deal with so many variations of traffic conditions that, in spite of many attempts in later years to replace it by more modern inventions, it still holds its own on the railways throughout the world, and, except for certain classes of exceptional short distance traffic, appears to be still in the happy position of maintaining its pre-eminence in the world of transport for many years to come. Undoubtedly the day will arrive when steam, as a means of motive power, will be confined to the stationary power house, and be used to generate electricity for working the trains along our railroads. But I venture to say that the old steam locomotive will make a hard fight for its existence before it gives place to what has yet to be found-a more economical and more efficient method of railroad transport, or its equal as a self-contained unit.
I believe the secret of attraction in Locomotive Engineering is the fact that we are dealing with a machine that is so closely bound up with the Human Element. It gives such great opportunities in the design and proportions of its various parts, for originality; in its construction and maintenance, for progressive treatment ; and in its working, for considered judgment and skill, that those who devote their lives to its welfare are brought into contact in a very practical manner with the results of their efforts. Throughout its history we can easily follow the marked way in which the locomotive has developed to meet the requirements of the day, and perhaps no better example can be found than that shown by George Stephenson when, realising that the traffic on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway called for something different in the way of handling than that which had hitherto been necessary, he at once put into the design of the “ Rocket ” features which he felt were essential for a speedier and more effective engine.
There is no doubt that the railways of these Islands have reached their present state of development through the keen competition that existed between them in the pre- War days, and in this development the locomotive has played, perhaps, the most important part. If it had not been capable of meeting the ever-increasing demands of the traffic, the history of our railways would have made a very different story from what it has. The fact that the locomotive men in the past have been able to rise continually to the occasion proves that they have not been slow in realising their responsibility in locomotive development. Competition is necessary for progression, but at times i: is liable to lead to extravagance and waste of money, unless held in check by commonsense. Nowadays the keen competitive element between our railways has vanished, largely on account of the amalgamation and grouping of lines in this Country. But a new situation has arisen, which was hardly ‘foreseen in the comparative suddenness with which it appeared, in the rapid growth of Road Transport, which is the result of the continued development and perfection of the internal combustion engine.
Another factor which has brought about a new chain of circumstances is the great increase, in recent years, in wages, new conditions of service and higher cost of materials. To-day the need for economy and efficiency in the face of these modern conditions emphasises the need for locomotive engineers to unite in order to bring into action the vast resources at their disposal. The chief problem that our predecessors had to face was the producing of locomotives that would enable the traffic of one railway to he worked more speedily and haul heavier loads than another railnay with which it was competing. The problem which we have to solve to-day is development of means of reducing the cost of construction, maintenance and working, without impairing the efficiency of the machine, and at the same time increasing its value as a power unit.
The natural outcome of this state of things is the all important question of the theoretical and practical training of locomotive engineers, which in itself is an excellent suhject for an up-to-date paper.
Until some eighteen years ago, locomotive engineers in this Country, with the exception of the chiefs of our railways, had no special facilities for meeting together to discuss matters relating to their profession, solely among themselves. There were, it is true, many engineering societies in which locomotive men, as mechanical engineers, found a welcome and good housing accommodation, but there was no Institution such as this, of which I am proud to be its President this year, and a very much needed want was supplied when the Institution of Locomotive Engineers came into being in 1911. The progress it has made since it was started fully justifies the efforts of those who first brought it into being, and one has only to look back over the list of papers that have been produced, read and discussed at the various meetings of the Institution to get some idea of the vast amount of interesting and useful information that is available for all its members. All this information is the result of practical experience on the part of those who have contributed the papers, and this, together with the discussions, which are often as valuable as the papers themselves, are distributed to members all over the world, and therefore keep those employed on the railways of distant lands in touch with progress in locomotive matters in the Home Country.
It may not be always realised how far-reaching is the influence of the papers and discussions, or how much they are valued abroad; but the proof lics in the fact that many members from Overseas take the opportunity, when visiting the Home Country on leave, to call at the Headquarters of the Institution, and express their appreciation of the Journal, which enables them to keep up-to-date with current locomotive topics.
It is also an interesting fact that one of the large sister institutions depends almost wholly on the Institution of Locomotive Engineers for the supply of locomotive literature to its library.
It is not so many years ago that the only chance a young engineer had of becoming anything better than an ordinary mechanic lay in his own individual efforts to provide himself with the means of obtaining information and instruction of a more technical nature than he was able to acquire through the medium of the workshop. Nowadays it is a recognised thing in all locomotive and rail\vay workshops that technical education is a matter of considerable importance, and facilities are granted for apprentices and pupils to obtain this in such a manner that theory and practice can be studied side by side. The importance of proper technical education cannot be over-estimated, as it must result in a more interested and efficient staff who are able to deal in a more intelligent way with the work that they are immediately employed on. The result, undoubtedly, is that the young men who have passed through our locomotive shops are more fitted to take charge of the minor positions in shop or running shed which occur from time to time, and so, having once got their feet on the ladder for advancement, are naturally anxious to make their weight felt in the higher quarters of their department. It is just at this time that such an organisation as this Institution can be made good use of by those who may feel they have not the necessary influence or means of bringing themselves under the notice of their superiors as they would like to. The opportunities afforded to all locomotive engineers by joining the Institution are considerable, and I would especially appeal to the younger memhers in particular to come forward, and not only take part in the discussions hut also to contribute papers. I know there is always a certain amount of diffidence on the part of juniors to open their mouths in the presence of older and more experienced members of the profession, but if once this can be overcome the way is opened to free exchange of thought and ideas, which, if rightly directed, is bound to be beneficial, not only to the members themselves, but also to the Institution as a whole. Although the chief object of the Institution is the advancement of knowledge and development of the locomotive
and rolling stock, there is another sphere in which it might be called to play a really useful and important part, viz., by aiding its members, and the younger men particularly, to get into suitable positions on the railways of our Colonies or elsewhere. Already work of this kind is being done by the Institution, but undoubtedly a great deal more could be done with the co-operation of the railway companies and large rolling stock factories. Every year a certain number of apprentices and pupils from our locomotive and carriage shops come out of their time, and after continuing a few years as journeymen in the works or running sheds seek an opportunity of widening their outlook, and of getting some footing on the supervising staff. In many cases, of course, young men of exceptional promise are retained by their employers, with good prospects of advancement, but in many instances, while some are content to remain where they are, others seeing no immediate chance of promotion either leave locomotive engineering altogether and become absorbed in other branches of the engineering profession, or else endeavour to find some favourable opening abroad. It is to help such as these that the resources of the Institution might be called into play, and a system, which is to some extent already in operation, could be developed, which would enable members desiring jobs elsewhere to be registered, so that particulars of their training, experience, qualifications, etc., would be available, to be furnished to the railways on application for suitable men to fill the required vacancies. In order to make such a scheme workable, it would be very necessary to have the co-operation of the Home railway companies, as well as those abroad, as in the first place a definite scheme for training would have to be agreed on, so that men who had completed their apprenticeship and were desirous of bcing registered on the books of the Institution would have the opportunity of gaining the necessary experience over and above their apprenticeship training, in order to qualify them for positions abroad. I feel sure that if some such scheme could be brought into operation it would be much appreciated by all those concerned, as the younger men would feel that they were not being passed over and their abilities lost without a chance to exhibit them, and the railways or works that were requiring men would be satisfied with the applicants who were recommended through the Institution of Locomotive Engineers.
It would, of course, be necessary to have some standard set up, in ordcr to qualify applicants for the various posts; this could take the form of an examination conducted by the Institution, and the granting of a certificate to those who passed, or the recognition of a certificate or diploma of any Approved Technical Authority, or the Universities. (Already members are lost and their locomotive training wasted through lack of some such arrangement as this). It may be argued that, if such a scheme were adopted, there might be danger of the primary object of the Institution being over-ridden and its becoming a kind of agency for jobs. I consider, however, that any doubts on this point would be rendered unnecessary by the fact that applicants would have to qualify for registration, and this in itself would help to raise the profcssional status of the Institution generally, and enhance the value of its work in the railway and engineering world. A strong point in favour of the materialisation of some such arrangement is the emphasis it would give to the importance of the Institution remaining on its own foundation, and not becoming absorbed in some older and larger kindred body. So far, the history of the Institution has been bound up in the progress and development of the steam locomotive, but the fact must not be overlooked that in due time other sources of power will undoubtedly be evolved, and prove more elfective in reducing working costs and increasing the efficiency of train-working. Then power units which may be largely the adaptation to railway working of ideas used in other spheres of the industry will bring into the locomotive world men who have hitherto not come into touch with this actual branch of engineering. If such occasion should arise, it will be up to the Institution of Locomotive Engineers to welcome these as members, entitled to carry on the important work of our profession.
Whatever may happen in the future to the steam locomotive as a means of haulage, it must not be forgotten that the rolling stock to be worker1 over railways will still have to be constructed and maintained to fulfil the standard of the requirements of the day. Already so many members of this Institution are engaged in this important branch of the profession that there seems little chance of the Institution losing its identity in the event of such a condition of things, as mentioned above, taking place. In this Address I have endeavoured to bring before you some aspects of our profession as I view it to-day, and to ernphasise the importance of our having such an excellent means at our disposal as the membership of this Institution affords. The problems that lie ahead are certainly no less than those of the past, although they may differ considerably in nature and extent; hut wc may rest assured that the great work of Railway Transport, which is one of such national importance, will always require the services of locomotive engineers to effect the best means of maintaining and developing the medium of power by which it is manipulated, in the face of any competitive methods that may arise on land, or on water, or by air. The Institution must contain within itself all the brain power necessary for this development, and it is up to the members generally to so organise that brain power as to do what is required of it.
There are two points with regard to a Presitlential Address in which I think the reader has an advantage. In the first place he is allowcd to read his Address. and in the second place it is not usual to offer criticisms in regard to it !
Vote of thanks given by J. Clayton pp. 225-6 and by G.A. Musgrave at Leeds (pp. 237-9) when he noted Bazin's Doncaster connection.
Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the North Eastern Centre was held in the Library, City Museum, Leeds, on Tucsday, the 14th day of January, 1930, at 7 p.m., Mr. E. de H. Rowntree occupying the chair.
Third Ordinary General Meeting of the Manchester Centre (Session 1929-30) was held in the Manchester Literary and Philosophical Society’s Rooms, 36, George Street, Manchester, at 7 p.m., on Friday, the 24th day of January, 1930, the Chair being taken by Mr. E.M. Gass..

Journal No. 95

Gass, E.M.
Chairman's address. 262-6.
First Ordinary General Meeting of the Manchester Centre (Session 1929-30) was held in the building of the ManChester Literary and Philosophical Society, 36, George Street, Manchester, at 7.0 pm., on Friday, 8 November 1929.
Mr. J. N. Gresham occupied the chair, and in opening the Meeting commented upon the rejuvenation of the Centre, and appealed to all members to support the Committee in their efforts to establish the Centre once more on a firm footing.
Mr. Gresham introduced Mr. Gass, the Chairman of the Centre for the current Session.
Mr. Gass then delivered his Inaugural Address, after which the Meeting was adjourned for an interval of 15 minutes.
During the last four or five years much attention had been devoted to the use of very high pressure in !ocomotives. For a long number of years, with few exceptions, boiler pressures ranging from 140 to 200 psi inch were the rule, but in 1924 a bold departure was made by the Delaware and Hudson Railway, in America, in placing into service a two-cylinder compound locomotive having a boiler pressure of 350 psi. The experiment appears to have proved satisfactory, for another locomotive, but with the pressure increased to 400 psi was built three years later. No records have been published regarding the performances of the two locomotives.
In October. 1926, a series of tests were carried out on a three-cylinder 4-10-2 type superheated compound locomotive using steam at 350 psi. With the exception of the water-tube firebox the locomotive, followed orthodox lines. The locomotive was tested on the Pennsylvania Railroad test plant at various indicated horsepowers from 1,500 to 4,500. The coal consumed on the test plant and confirmed in service was 13 lbs. on low power increasing to 24. lbs. on the higher ,powers per indicated horse-power-hour, or 2.4 lbs. to 3.3 lbs. per drawbar horse-power-hour.
The Schmidt Superheater Co. in 1925, in conjunction with Henschel and Sohn, Cassel, built a superheated compound locomotive having one high- and two low-pressure cylinders using steam in the former at the extraordinary pressure of 900 psi and on exhausting from that cylinder mixing with low-pressure steam from the boiler at 200 psi before passing into the low-pressure cylinders. The design was on conventional lines except the two-staged boiler which comprised a water-tube boiler connected to an upper drum pressed to 900 psi and a barrel portion pressed to 200 psi filled with smoke tubes, in which the superheater elements are housed. The extensive trials conducted on the German Federal Railway indicate the locomotive to be economical in coal and water, the average steam and coal consumption being 17.5 lbs. and 2.54 lbs. respectively per draw-bar horse-power-hour with coal of the calorific value of 12,760 B.T.U. per Ib. After studying for about two years the question of high steam pressure in locomotives, the Swiss Locomotive and Machine Works began building in 1926 a locomotive of the 2-6-2 superheated type using steam exclusively at 850 lbs. per square inch pressure aad possessing many novelties, Steam is generated in a water-tube boiler supplied with feedwater at approximately boiler temperature, and the air before entering the grate is heated. In place of the usual cylinder in conjunction with a crank and connecting rods, a high-speed single expansion unitlow engine, driving through gear reduction a jack shaft coupled to the three pairs of driving wheels, is employed. The locomotive, when tested, recorded some extraordinary results. On the stationary test plant the steam consumed was 13.2 lbs. and the coal used 12 Ibs. per effective horse-power-hour, extraordinary results. Comparative road tests were also carried out with the locomotive and a conventional twocylinder superheater engine using steam at 170 psi. A saving of 35% to 40%. of coal and 47% to 55%. of steam was recorded in favour of the high-pressure engine.
The burning of powdered coal in land and marine boilers has now passed the experimental stages and is slowly making headway, for it has been proved to be more economical in use than either raw coal or oil. Little progress, however, has been made with the application of wlverised fuel to locomotibe furnaces, owing to the inherent difficulties associated with the ordinary type of Stephenson boiler. To successfully burn powdered coal it is essential to habe ample combustion space and a time lag for combustion. The formu essential is the reverse in the ordinary boiler of the locomotive engine. Numerous experiments on the burning of pulverised coal in steam locomotives ha\e been conducted abroad and in :his Country, all of which have been abandoned. Recently, however, hlessrs. Henschel and Sohn, of Cassel, have dexoted much study, research and experimental work in solving the problem with very satisfactory results. With this firm’s system there is good prospect of burning low grade coal containing as much as 20% of ash. In comparative tests made with a locomotive pulverised fuel fired and a grate-fired locomotive, the former requirea 26.4 B.T.U. per draw-bar horse-power-hour and the latter 39.7 B.T.U., a saving of 33%. in favour of powdered coal. The economy effected in steam and coal consumed by the use of extraordinary high boiler pressure and the use of pulverised fuel is a marked advance in locomotive practice.
Upon the resumption, Mr. Gass read a Paper entitled, " Undue Compression in the Cylinders of Steam Locomotives and Means for Combating Same," following which a discussion took place upon the subject
Locomoti\,e builders would he well advised to press the State for the installation of a National Testing Laboratory where locomotives for here and abroad could be tested and tuned before going into scriice. This city, the centre of the locomotive industry, is a fitting place for the housing of the test plant.

Gass, E.M. (Paper No. 256)
Undue compression in the cylinders of steam locomotives and means for combating same. 267-78. Discussion: 279-86.It has been recognised that undue compression is present in the cylinders of steam locomotives when running at high speed ... (a) With steam on and operating with a full-open regulator, early cut-off must be employed, consequently early compression takes place and rises higher in pressure than the working pressure. (b) Coasting with steam shut off and the reverse lever in full gear, although compression begins very late, there is resistance to the opposing piston by air locking. Mainly advocating ball relief valves for piston valves..
J.W. Smith (279-80) noted that in 1886 the NER fitted its valves with one wide and one narrow ring. Sandford (280-1) asked what pressure should be sought. J.C. Sykes (281). S.H. Whitelegg (281-2). L.J. La Claire (282); W. Rowlands (282-3) described the non-return ball valves used on GCR which cushioned steam under stress when drifting. D.R. Carling advocated the Riekie valve gear. In his reply Gass noted that the cage and ball type had been tested against Richardson balanced slide valves on the Aspinall 4-4-2 type.

Selby, F.W. (Paper No. 257)
Compound locomotives. 287-316. Discussion: 317-24; 693-703: 1931, 21, 85-119; 311-12. 6 illus., 12 diagrs., 3 tables.
Second Ordinary General Meeting of the North Eastern Centre (Session 1929-30), was held on Friday, 15 November 1929, at 7 p.m., in the Hotel Metropole, Leeds, the chair being taken by Mr. E. Alcock.
Types of Compound Locomotive:
The Two-Cylinder Type, Compound locomotives may t x t readily divided into various types according to the number of cylinders employed. The simplest form of compound is the two-cylinder type. The cylinders may be either inside as in the case of the Northern Counties Committee (Ireland) or the Worsdell-von-Borries engines on the N.E.R.: or outside as employed in Germany, on the: Delaware & Hudson R.R., and on the Central Argentine Railway. The advantage of the two-cylinder compound lies in its simplicity, and where high speed is not essential satisfactory results can be obtaincd (see The Cylinder performancc of Cross-compound locomotives” by P.L. Falconer, Journal Volume 17, Paper 217. An intercepting valve between the h.p. and l.p. cylinders is always required, and steam has to be admittcad direct into the 1.p. cylinder at starting. The disadvantage of the two-cylindcr system is thc unsymmetrical locomotive produced, and the difficulty in getting equal work done by the two sides (the h.p. side and the 1.p. side) of the locomotive under widely varying conditions of operation. In England also, it is extremely difficult to accommodate the large 1.p. cylinder. (A German 0-10-0 type: shunting engine which came under the Author's notice in 1918 had a 1.p. cylinder about 36in. diameter.
Three-cylinder Compounds.
So far as the Author is aware only two main types of three-cylinder compound locomotives have ever been built apart from one or two “ freak ” engines. One of thew types was the Webb compound on the L. & N.W.Rly., in which two h.p. cylinders outside the frame exhausted into one large l.p. cylindcr between the frames. In the goods engines all the cylinders drove one axle, but in the passenger engine they were divided, and the h.p. drove the second axle whilst the 1.p. drove the leading axle. The wheels wcre not coupled together.
The other type of three-cylinder compound was the Smith type, of which the Deeley compounds on the Midland and now on the L.M.S. are a development. There are isolated examples of three-cylinder compounds in this Country (G.C.R. 4-4-2) in America and Germany, but generally speaking the three-cylinder compound is not greatly used. Its chief disadvantage lies in the unequal division of work between the h.p. and 1.p. cylinders, which is discussed more fuIly later.
The Four-Cylinder Type.
By far the best known and most successful compound locomotives in the world have been those of the four-cylindcr type-particularly of the de G1ehn type. In England four-cylinder compounds were built on the L.N.W.R. (Webb), N.E.R. (Worsdcll-Nos. 730 and 731) and two experimental engines on the G.N.R. None of these appears to have been a conspicuous success—at any rate they have nearly all been broken up or rebuilt as simples.
The Vauclain Compound.
In America some four-cylinder compounds were built, particularly of the Vauclain type. In this arrangement an h.p. and an 1.p. cylinder wcre mounted with the barrels close together, one above thc other, and they both drove the same crosshead ; only two crossheads, connecting-rods, and crank-pins were therefore required for a four-cylinder engine. As might have been expected, the reciprocating masses were so heavy that the engines were not a success, and the type has died out.
The Mallet Compound.
One other type of four-cylinder compound locomotive, which was built in considerable numbers, especially in the U.S.A., was the Mallet type of articulated engine. In this case one group of wheels (generally the hind end) was driven by the h.p. cylinder and one group by the l.p. The leading group of wheels moved laterally in relation to the hind group, much as the leading bogie of a 4-4-0 engine does to the coupled wheels.
A better type of articulated locomotive in the Author’s opinion is the Garratt-and there is no reason why engines of this type should not be compounds—indeed isolated examples have been made. This type will be referred to later.
A Compound Rack-Rail Locomotive.
.Another form of compound, limited in application, but excellent in its way, is that used in Switzerland and on the Nilgiri Railway in India for rack locomotives. In this case, when running on the level portions, the locomotive operates as a two-cylinder simple adhesion engine, but on reaching the rack portion of the line the exhaust from the cylinders is diverted into two further cylinders of approximately the same size gearing into the rack and revolving about twice as fast as the main driving cylinders. In this way any tendency to slip when ascending heavy grades is automatically checked by the back pressure and only results in a momentary increase in the power of the rack-engine.
France The Home of Successful Compounding.
It is on the Continent of Europe that compounding has ined its greatest footing and it is to Prance, particularly the Nord and P.L.M. Railways that we must turn to find the most successful compounds.
The Nord “ Atlantic ” Type.
The Nord Railway began to experiment with fourcylinder compounds about 1886, and in 1891 brought out the first 4-4-0 type on the de-Glehn system, which system has been retained as standard down to the present day. In 1900 the first two 4-4-2 type engines were built, and these engines and their thirty-three sisters soon became world famous.  So successful were they indeed that several engineers purchased similar machines.: G.W.R. of this Country had three, and several were sent to India (Bengal Nagpur), America (Pennsylvania), Soudan, etc., whilst various compaanies copivd the design,  French Est, French Etat, Belgian State, etc. The principles of design originally embodied had been tried out for over thirty years when the Nord designed their present standard-in 1924-but they retained all the main points and only enlarged and improved details.
Golsdorf Compounds in Austria.
Golsdorf built some remarkable engines for working the heavy gradients. Owing to the severely limited axle loading some of the passenger engines had tcn and even twelve couplcd wheels  and were compounds having, as a rule, two h.p. cylinders between the frames inclincd to drive the second axle, whilst the 1.p. cylinders were placed outsidc the frames and drove horizontally on to the third pair of wheels.
The Paris, Lyons and Mediterranean Railway.
'I'he P.L.M. Railway built their first compound in 1889, and by 1900 were building a 4-6-0 engine as standard for express traffic. These engines were built on the Henry principle, which was similar in cylinder arrangement to the de-Glehn, but differed from it in having the 1.p. valve gear fixed at 63 per cent. cut-off for all conditions of working, whilst the h.p. could be varied from about 8j per cent. cut-off to mid-gear at will. This arrangement was fitted to all I'.I,.M. engines until the advent of the new 4-8-2 type w:hich has only two valve gears (instead of four) resulting, of course, in both h.p. and 1.p. valves being operated togcther, the cut-offs being arranged differentially so that a later cut-ofl is always maintained in the 1.p. than in the h.p.
Suggested Valve Gear,
In order to avoid the use of four complete valve gears and at the same time get more elastic performance than is possible when both h.p. and 1.p. are simply worked from one gear, the Author designed a valve gear having the following characteristics :-
(1) No inside eccentrics required.
(2) Only one reversing gear.
(3) Both h.p. and 1.p. reversed together from one lever.
(4) Reversing lever can be thrown over instantly from
(5) But h.p. cut-off can be varied independently of
(6) Adustment to h.p. cut-off is independent of reversing gear and can be made as finely as desired by means of a screw,
(7) L.p. cut-off can only be set at limited num\>er of positions, say, 75 per cent. (simple only), and 68, 57, sp and 45 per cent. compound.
(8) More variation in adjustment than is possible with differential cut-offs I worked together from one lever.
(9) More fooLproof than two completely independent gears, because h.p. cut-off can only be varied between predetermined limits for each 1.p. cut-off.
(10) The gear has fewer parts than independent gears would have, and has the advantage that the lead is separately provided for each valve.
Discussion: E. Alcock (317) expressed satisfaction with LMS compounnds. G.M. Pargiter (317-19) introduced implied criticism of LNER No. 10000: it has been fitted with almost every device which exists with the exception of wings and a propeller. E.A. Newsum (319); D.W, Harvey mentioned the Vauclain compounds; S.J. Lucas (319-21) noted his experience with the Worsdell two-cylinder compounds on the GER and the good balance and even torque provided by the NER three-cylinder compounds. J.M.. Doherty (321); A. Hird (321-2); J.R. Thackeray (322) had experience of Worsdell locomotives fitted with Joy valve gear on NER and found them to be heavy on maitenance. The engines proved to be heavy in maintenance costs, as mentioned by Mr. Hird, especially through the “ D ” valves fitted on the top of the cylinders, and the port faces wearing, and difficulty was experienced in re-facing the latter at sheds where there was no special equipment. The Author has referred to the human element in the satisfactory working of these engines ; my experience bears this out. A driver regularly rostered to one of these engines, who took a pride in his work, could achieve wonderfully good results in the working and in fuel economy, whereas often, when the engine was given into the hands of men who were not in favour of the principle, delays to the working and other troubles often occurred. One frequent trouble was the starting of the trains on rising gradients. Attempts to over- come this by fitting a starting valve so as to give the low-pressure cylinder steam simultaneously with the high-pressure cylinder were not altogether successful. . .

Sixth Ordinary General h4eeting of the Scottish Centre (Session 1929-1930) was held in the Royal Technical College, Glasgow, on Thursday, 13 March 1930, at 7.30 p.m. Mr. C. H. Robinson, Chairman of the Centre, presided.
The Chairman stated that iit is evident that Great Britain has not excelled in the use of compound locomotives. Mr. Selby has more or. less based his text on the system in vogue on the Chemin de Fer du Nord, which has favoured whole-heartedly the compound locomotive, ever since the introduction of the de Glehn system. There is no doubt that the Frenchman goes very deeply into his designs; this was impressed on me during the War, when the Nord Railway occupied part of the new Etat shops at Rouen, the other portion being given ever to the main base loco. workshops of B.E.F. During that time some of the big 2-10-0 type engines, mentioned in the Paper, were under repair thcre. There must be a great deal in the fact that the French driver starts his career as a fitter, serving a proper apprenticeship, and that only when fully qualified as such is he sent to the footplate, and probably to a compound. This appears to me to be the secret of making the compound engine a success: familiarity with every detail of its construction will entail better handling on the road. I remember hearing it stated by one, whose knowledge of the locomotive is very extensive from all points of view, that the de Glehn compound is the ideal express passenger locomotive
The introduction of the de Glehn compound to the Bengal Nagpur Rly. system in 1906, though at first experimentally, has led to its adoption by that railway on account of the excellent work done. I  have had first-hand accounts of its successes from Mr. Bailey, who was the chief mechanical engineer at the time of its introduction. The members have doubtless seen in the technical Press that this company has just deliverer! a further 18 de Glehn compounds of the Pacific type—a much bigger enginet in every way—to the Bengal Nagpur Railway, and reports received so far on their performance on the road are most satisfactory, and it is evident that they can cope with case with the heaviest traffic requirements of the system.
The question of compounding is one which must be of interest to all those employed in the operating departments, and I hope that there are many present who will either criticise Mr. Selby's findings or ask for further information. .

The discussion in Volume  21 (Meeting in London) Second Ordinary General Meeting of the 1930-31 Session was held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Koad, London, on Thursday 30 October 1930,. at 6 p.m.,H. Kelway Bamber, President of the Institution, occupying the Chaircontains corriegenda and addenda, especially further information on the de Glehn system.
A.C. Carr (91-5) That section of the Paper which deals particularly with de Glehn compounds has been of special interest to me, as over a period of years on the Bengal-Nagpur Railway I had experience in the running and main- tenance of such engines, and latterly I have been associated with the general design of the later compound engines. The Author in Part I. of his Paper makes some historical remarks, and this has prompted me to delve into my own recollections and notes during an association of something like 38 years with Indian locomotives.
India has a very long history in connection with compound locomotives. Charles Sandiford, the late Locomotive Superintendent of the N.W.Rly. of India, in 1884 converted a 2-4-0 type simple engine into a four-cylinder compound, with h. p. cylinders 11¾ in. x 24 in. and 1. p. cylinders 17 in. x 24 in., aIJ driving the leading coupled axle. The boiler pressure was 120 lbs. I gather from the Author's Paper that the Nord Railway of France began to experiment about 1886 with four-cylinder compounds, hut it was not until 1891 that the first 4-4-0 type on the de Glehn principle was brought out; it would therefore appear that India, and not France, was the birthplace of the four-cylinder compound. Sandiford also converted another 2-4-0 type simple engine into a two-cylinder compound, and had an arrangement by which high-pressure steam could be admitted to the low-pressure cylinder. Particulars of these engines will be found, I think, in the Proceedings of the. Institution of Mechanical Engineers for 1886. Even with the low pressure used in those days-it was only, as I say, 120 Ibs. -he got remarkably good results from these compound engines. The late 1\1r. Ahrons pointed out, in his record of British steam locomotives 1825-1925, that the drawings of both these engines were completed in 1885, some con- siderable time before the introduction of the Worsdell two- cylinder compound. We should, therefore, not forget to give due credit to this early pioneer in compound loco- motives.
Webb's three-cylinder compound locomotives were also tried on the old Oude and Rohilkhand Railway of India, which is now absorbed in the East Indian Railway, but I think they met the same fate as similar engines in this Country.
A two-cylinder compound was also tried on the old Indian Midland Railway, now absorbed in the Great Indian Peninsular Railway, and on the old East Coast Railway, which was partly taken over by the Bengal-Nagpur Railway in 1904 At the time the East Coast was taken over by the Bengal-Nagpur, a certain number of these two-cylinder compounds was also taken over, and! it fell to my lot to convert them into simple engines. I cannot remember, after this lapse of time, what particular form of starting valve they had, but I know it was possible to admit high pressure steam to the low-pressure cylinder, and I remember the movement of the engine when starting on the l.p. cylinder was rather disconcerting, and I think at times was dangerous to the staff. In those early days the Bengal-Nagpur Railway, with which I was connected, was emerging from the construction stage to the status of one of the great trunk lines of India, and there was then no time to experiment with compound locomotives; but later on—1 think in 1907—the North British Locomotive Company offered to build two compound passenger engines on the de Glehn principle to the requirements of the railway on approval. This rather sporting offer was accepted by the Bengal-Nagpur Railway with a degree of locomotive enterprise rather uncommon in those times. These two locomotives were successful, and further orders followed. The only modifications, as far as I remember, were that the h. p. cylinders were fitted with piston valves instead of Richardson's balanced valves. The axle load was 17! tons, which was somewhat in excess of the 16 tons sanctioned in those days, but an exception was made owing' to the more favourable dynamic augment under the drivers. These engines have given very excellent service. The boiler pressure was 220 lbs.—a high pressure for British- built locomotive's twenty years ago—but any original apprehensions as to boiler troubles did not materialise, bearing testimony to the straightforward design, the quality of the materials and the workmanship.
From some records I have obtained in India, one of these locomotives, placed in service in December, 1907, had run 739,988 miles by the end of last July, or an average of over 33,000 miles a year for a period of 22! years. The copper tube-plate was renewed after 475,209 miles, and a new copper firebox was fitted after 61 1,000 miles. The charcoal tubes with which the boiler was fitted were withdrawn after 147,000 miles, and after being repaired with copper ends, ran a further 111,000 miles. The water space stays gave little trouble and renewals were not greater than is usual with boilers with much lower pressures. New bogie tyres were fitted after 543,9IO miles and new driving tyres after 6I.l,097 miles, new trailing tyres being fitted about midway between those two mileages. I think the Author's statement on page 298 (Journal Vo!. XX., No. 95) as to reduced wear and tear may be confirmed. I agree with the conclusions the Author gives in paragraphs (3) and (4) on page 298. These particular engines, although their rated tractive effort is less than ordinary simple engines doing the same work, are able to haul 350 to 400 tons loads in a very highly efficient manner, and when required could make very much longer non-stop runs without taking water. The Author: mentions the use of poppet valves to avoid too early closing of the exhaust valve. I think this is of special importance in connection with the h.p. cylinders. Some of these engines of which I have just spoken have been re-boilered with superheater boilers with multiple headers and combined regulators, the h. p. cylinders being fitted with poppet valves. The combined regulator gives a bigger steam storage capacity in the boiler, and the poppet valves give a freer exhaust. Some of the engines thus reconditioned are giving excellent service. On page 294 the Author gives a very accurate appreciation of the features of compound locomotives on the de Glehn principle, but there is, I think, one other feature which deserves mention; I refer to the disposition of the cylinders on the frame. The outside cylinders, as you may have noticed from the photographs, are placed well back on the frame, and this has the effect of reducing the distance from the centre of the outside cylinders to a vertical line drawn through the centre of gravity. I was reading an article in an American journal the other day on modern American twocylinder passenger locomotives, and reference was therein made to the pronounced tendency of modern two-cylinder engines to nose and swing across the track. I think this is a defect, and a very objectionable defect ; it not only makes the engine very uncomfortable for the footplate staff, but it also necessitates much more heavy structural framing and adds additional weight, which is really only a palliative. In my opinion the trouble is mainly due to the very large distance between the centre of the cylinders and the vertical centre of gravity; and I think in millti-cylinder engines, whether simple or compound, it is an advantage to put the outside cylinders well back on the frame, reducing the distance to the centre of gravity. This is comparatively easy in a multi-cylindered engine, because the very fact of putting the inside cylinders well forward has the effect of bringing the centre of gravity forward. These are only my own opinions, based on a certain amount of observation and experience; but I think there is an opportunity for younger members of the Institution to make some further investigations in this respect
J. Clayton made extensive comment on p. 95 et seq: The Author has covered the ground so completely in the Paper that he has largely provided his own criticism and answered it too. With regard to the subject of compounding, however, one is inclined to wonder where our British locomotive engineers have been all this time, why they have not adopted the idea of compounding, and why they have left all the work done by British engineers of the past, such as Webb, Worsdell and Deeley, out of account and have gone in wholly for simple engines. It seems to me the reason is rather difficult to understand. Although not very old, I am  old enough to remember some of those early attempts (including the failures) in the endeavour to make a success of compounding ; and I remember how, when the locomotive engineer who had been interested and believed in compounding and introduced it on the system for which he was responsible passed away, his successor at once changed the whole policy, scrapped all the compounds and replaced them by simple engines, and we were generally told, with excellent results. The idea of compounding, it was said, could not be applied to the locomotive in British loading gauge and within the weights allowed by the civil engineer, because unless we could include the use of a coadenser compounding never could be a success.
We are led to wonder why one of the finest locomotive engineers of his day, Mr. Churchward, of the G.W.R., after his experience with the three wonderful compounds of the Nord type, did not adopt them, or at any rate take their good points and embody compounding in his new design. He certainly got much useful information from them, but he did not build any compounds himself, but simple engines, and there must have been some reason for such a shrewd man’s decision.
Then take the L.M.S., which has a large stud of light compound engines. do not suppose there are any more economical engines for their weight in the world for given trains they can handle, they are wonderfully successful engines. It is, however, a fact that they were not a success — and I speak with some knowledge of them— until they were simplified, as they are to-day, and as near the simple engine as a compound can well be. They have no “gadgets” such as the intercepting valve, which in my early days seemed the bugbear of the Worsdell-von Borries’ compound. The first compound engines which were built at Derby on the old Midland were of the type designed by the late Mr. W.M. Smith, of the old North Eastern Railway, under Mr. W. Worsdell many years ago, and they were based on that experience, having two reversing gears and pressure reducing valves.
Those engines were never out of trouble, especially in regard to the reducing valves, and it was not until Mr. Deeley introduced his simple regulator system that they were a success. By this arrangement the engine is started on the small valve as a simple engine, the l.p. cylinders being supplied with live steam through a small pipe which reduces the pressure. When that was done those compounds became the every-day success which to-day they are. So one wonders why, with that experience behind them, the L.M.S., when they were thinking of such engines as the “ Royal Scot,” did not consider the compound system. I know this is not very constructive criticism, but it is the sort of thing behind our mind when we hear a Paper such as this which seems to suggest that we have been backward. Perhaps we may put it down largely to the love of the British engineer for simplicity; my own feeling, at any rate, is that this idea has kept back the compound in this Country. We have longed for simplicity and gone back to the simple engine; and perhaps also one may say that, taking everything into consideration, the service requirements, the road and gauge restrictions, the incessant demands for intensive all-round machines, it would he very difficult to design a compound engine which would beat some of the really good work that is being done in this Country by the best simple high-pressure engines to-day.
J.R. Gould (98-9) experience of the Worsdell-von-Borries type on the GSR in the Argentine; The question of coal consumption of locomotives becomes, in countries like the Argentine. Republic, which depends entirely on the imported article, a matter of paramount importance, and an endeavour to secure economy in this respect led to the trial of the compound engine. The type of engine adopted on the Great Southern Railway was the two-cylinder Worsdell-von Borries, as being the simplest arrangement and interfering least with the duplication of parts of the standard simple engines previously in service. All these engines, both simple and compound, were built by Beyer, Peacock & Company under the instructioas of Livesey, Sons & Henderson, the company’s consulting engineers. The first compound engines ordered were erected in 1889, and the results obtained were so excellent that, with the excepton of shunting and local traffic engines, no simple engines, either goods or passenger, have since been ordered. The engines proved easy to handle, exhibited a high ecunomy in coal and water, and, owing to the reduced demand on the boiler, showed less tendency to prime and scale than the original simples. They can run much fuller into gear without lifting the water, and thus haul heavier loads. ” The Worsdell-von Borries intercepting valve, how ever, was found not quite satisfactory and was modified, so that the. valve, which is automatic, of course, and not haedled by the driver at all, would not close too soon, thus delaying compounding, so that the train would be got under way with greater ease. The valve has been working now for over thirty years and has proved quite successful on that railway and others in Argentina.
Until quite recently, nothing but compound engines have been used both on the Buenos Aires Great Southern and the Buenos Aires Western, but I believe the tendency now is to adopt the three-cylinder simple, due to its better torquewhich, in my opinion, is not much in its favour ; I think the four or three-cylinder compound would prove a better and more economical engine.
It was found that superheating improved the compound engine considerably, and that oil-burning again gave a more powerful engine, owing to its high calorific value. Generally the superheated compound has proved very successful.
J.R. Bazin (99-101) experience of the Ivatt experiments with the Vulcan Foundry de Glehn type compound supplied to the GNR. Cited Ivatt's own paper published Proc. Instn Mech. Engrs in 72-525, 1907, which described tests performed on the GNR in 1906. Noted that the "simple engine triumphed" under Churchward, and that condensation was experienced in the low pressure cylinders on the GNR.C.
The Author (102-3): The question of the comparatively poor performance of the Great Northern 4-4-2 type compound engines mentioned by Mr. Bazin was raised at the Glasgow Meeting. I had no opportunity of observing the work of those engines, but looking at them simply from the design point of view, as I did at the time, it appeared that Mr. Ivatt’s compounds had such a small cylinder capacity that they had very little chance of handling the same traffic as the standard Great Northern Atlantics. The Vulcan Foundry engine, No. 1,300, was a most peculiar looking design. It may have been intended to be exactly like the French Nord engines, but it certainly differed from the de Glehn engines in obvious points, though to what extent it differed in detail I am unable to say.
In reply to the question about the l.p. cylinders of the 4-6-2 engine shown in Appendix VII., much time was spent in arranging sufficiently large bearing areas with a 24 in. cylinder in the British loading gauge. It is made to fit within the same width gauge as the L.N.E.R. Pacific, namely, 8 ft. 10 in. It would pass the G. W.R., L. & S. W.R. and Caledonian gauges easily, and could run from Euston to Carlisle, but it would need cramping a further 2 in. to pass the " Universal " gauges of the L.M.S. or Southern Railways.
The journal sizes, etc., proposed are as follows :-
Inside Cylinders (16½ in. dia.) 18 in. centre to centre
Inside Crank Pins (built-up crank) 9 in. dia. x 5½ in. wide
Inside Crank Webs 4¾ in. wide ,
Inside Crank Webs balance weight 5¼ in. wide
Leading Driving Journals 9 in. dia. x 11 in. long
Intermediate & Trailing Driving Journals 9 in. dia. x 12 in. long
Driving Wheel Seats 9½in. dia. x 6½ in. long
Coupling-rod Crank Pins (leading) 4 in. dia x 4in. long
Coupling-rod Crank Pins (trailing) 4 in. dia x 6in. long
Combined Coupling-rod and Big-end 6 in. dia x 8½ in. long
Crank Pin (carrying floating bush) 6 in. dia x 8½ in. long
Coupling-rod Bearing on floating bush  6 in. dia x 8½ in. long
Connecting-rod Bearing on floating bush  7½in. dia. x 3½ in.wide
Outside Cylinders (24 in. dia.) 7½in. dia. x 5 in.wide
Flanges and covers 29½ in. dia. flattened at sides to 106 in. overall width 78 in. centre to centre

If a 9 ft. loading gauge width is permissible this flattening is not necessary). NOTE.-Special machining of crank-webs and wheeI-bosses is necessary to obtain the above sizes.
Cyril Williams (105) mentioned the Mallet articulated compounds;
W.A. Lelean (105-7): When we were asked to send out Garratt compounds to try against the simple engines, we referred to designs of Mallet engines, which had been a success. The proportions between the cylinders were accordingly made the same as in the Mallet type, and from the calculations made the 1.p. cylinder was expected to give 52 per cent. of the total. Although an attempt was made to compensate for the longer receiver pipes, etc., instead of 52 per cent. for the l.p. cylinder the figure obtained in actual running was only 36, wilh the result that the engine could not give anything like the same power as the Mallet with the same size cylinders. We have since learned, however, that after the high-pressure engine wheels had been re-turned (the low-pressure engine wheels did not require re-turning) it had the effect of making the low-pressure engine now give 48 to 49 per cent. of the total, and therefore equal to the Mallet. ‘The extra revolutions of the slightly smaller diameter high-pressure engine wheels has thus apparently got over the difficulty, as long as the same relative proportions are maintained between the high and low-pressure engine tyres. It would seem, therefore, that compound Garratts, with slight modifications in the relative sizes of the h.p. and 1.p. cylinders could be made, which would give the same good service as these Garratts are now giving with the smaller relative diameters of the high and low-pressure engine wheels. The reason why compound Garratts are ndt likely to be repeated on this particular service is that these engines are used on a line consisting of long grades of I in 25, changing to I in 40, and then returning to I in 25, combined with very severe curves, so that it is an extremely difficult line for any engine to work. The Garratt engine low-pressure cylinders were made about as large as the loading gauge would allow, but with increased traffic demands it is found that by using as large cylinders as possible on both engines and working them simple they will be able to haul larger loads and so reduce the number of trips and thereby reduce the congestion. Apart from these considerations the Garratt was reported to show an appreciable saving of coal compared with the simple engines, and when we consider the way in which the P.L.M. and other French engines get away with their trains up long grades, I do not think we can dismiss the practicability of the compound engine. At slow or even fast speeds, for continuous collar-work the compounds seem to show an advantage. .D. Twinberrow (108-9) asked for a fuller reference to the two four-cylinder compounds, Nos. 730 and 731, which Mr. W. M. Smith designed for the North Eastern Railway subsequent to the three-cylinder engine to which Mr. Clayton referred. These certainly possess a record of very good performances, which I think is borne out by the fact that one or other of them was always selected for working Royal trains and other special occasions requiring the reliable working of 400-ton trains at the highest schedule speeds. There was one fault which those engines had which I believe prejudiced their more .general use, and that was the unfortunate use of the word “ patent.” If they had not been "patent" engines they might have found a more extended field of employment; as things were, the preference was for simple engines to which that word was not applied. I should like to ask the Author what is the customary allowance on the French engines for the ratio of the superheating surface to the evaporative surface. In this Country, I believe, we rarely go beyond 20%; on the Continent one usually finds about 30% or more, and in America 45% is quite customary as the ratio of the superheater to the evaporative surface. This seems an extraordinary difference, and it has occurred to me that one reason may be that with good British coal a superheater is put in of a certain size and in daily work its performance comes fairly up to the expected level; but possibly on the Continent, with small dirty coal, a large proportion of the superheater surface may be put out of service by the accumulation of cinders in the tubes. In America that may occur to an even greater degree, especially with the automatic stokers and the strong draught, which I believe is causing the banks of the railways to become covered with a thick coating of small coal, much of it unconsumed. Another point referred to was the use of piston valves. I believe that on the Nord Railway some of the " Pacific " engines are fitted with flat valves for the 1.p. cylinders and some with piston valves. I understand that the drivers have a preference for those with flat valves on the 1.p. cylinders, because the exhaust is more direct and the engines are therefore freer in running. In that connection one wonders whether piston valves are not approaching the limits of their popularity, because on the horizon we can see that the poppet valve is looming rather large. The P.L.M. have fitted1 a certain number of their eight-coupled suburban tank engines with poppet valves, and they have definitely proved that the acceleration, the free running and the coasting periods are all better than with the piston valves. I have not come into direct contact with the use of poppet valves, but from the information I have gathered the universal opinion seems to be that the performance of the engine is improved to a very considerable extent, and that acceleration goes up, freedom in running is improved, and coal consumption reduced. In view of these promising results, I am inclined to wonder whether we are not playing too much for "safety first" in delaying the adoption of these valves on a scale sufficiently considerable for the economies which are claimed for them, and which they have apparently been proved to possess, having a sensible influence on the net earnings of the railways.
The Author: I regret that I have so little information regarding the performance of the N. E. Rly. engines, Nos. 730 and 731. They were “Smith” compounds designed by W. Worsdell, and built in 1906. When he retired, his successor did not experiment any further with compaund engines. They have Belpaire fireboxes and larger driving wheels and differ in many ways from the other N.E.R. “Atlantics” which, as Mr. Twinberrow says, probably led to prejudice, though in their earlier days I understand they did some’very fine work.
The accurate comparison of heating surfaces is not easy. The figures given in Appendix 111. are those published in the Press at the time when the engines were built, merely converted into English measure. As a rule there is no indication as to how the figures are calculated.
Comparing the French engines only with the British, I find that the superheating surface varies from 24 to 44% of the evaporative surface, averaging 33% against the British figures 18% to 26%., average 21%. Presuming (as I believe it to be the case) that the heating surfaces are calculated on the fiYe side in the French engines, I have tried scaling their evaporative surfaces 12% up and the superheating surfaces 21% which figures appeared suitable for average tube diameters and thicknesses. The Nord engines are excluded because they have Serve tubes, and the results for the other French engines are :-Superheating surface, 21%. to 29% of the evaporative surface, averaging 25%. The 3% variation from the British is due to the exceptionally large superheaters of the Est and P.L.M. 4-8-2 type engines.
D.R. Carling (111-12 VOL: 21): Mr. Twinberrow has referred to the superheater surfaces in England, the Continent and America. It will be remembered that the Continental people measure their heating surfaces on the fire side, and that will reduce the evaporative surface and greatly increase the superheater surface; and the measures are close together in Great Britain and on the Continent. In America the very large superheaters are of the "E" type; there are only two superheater tubes in each flue, and about 90%. of the hoiler tubes are superheater tubes, so that enormous surface is obtained because it is quite a different type of superheater. With type "A" the figures are similar to the British. I do not think the Author referred to the variable blast pipes used on the Continent. They are of very great importance in regard to locomotive performance. Again, the blast pipe should be properly placed in the smokebox, that is to say, at the bottom; and also the compounds must be properly driven. The Great Western imported compound engines, but did they import compound drivers and compound firemen? The drivers on the Nord Railway of France to-day were taught by their fathers and grandfathers, all of whom have driven compounds and most of them de Glehn compounds ; and that makes a big difference, as can be seen from noticing how badly the Midland compomds, in spite of their simplicity, are sometimes abused, though often they are very well driven. The "Mallet" engine has been mentioned. In the case of the very big ones, the l.p. cylinders were so enormous that if one tried to drive the engine fast they just fell right off. The ten-coupled “Mallets” of the Santa-Fe fell to bits if one tried to drive them above 15 m.p.h. Some research has been carried out in Russia on the effect of condensation in the receivers of “Mallet” locomotives. It does cause a great loss in power, and the results from the Burma “Garratt” engirie tend to confirm that. I do not think one can complain of receiver volume, but receiver surface is a nuisance, and the question of a re-heater might be considered there, though I know re-heaters have been somewhat discredited
Newcastle 10 December 1930: C. Schlegel (113-14) "Mr. Selby has undoubtedly made out a very strong case for the compound locomotive. I do not agree with everything he has said, as I have had experience with the four-cylinder compound engines of the Atlantic type which are in my district (Gateshead). I am very glad I only have two, as they are definitely much heavier in repairs compared with the simple  Atlantic engines doing a similar class of work. It appears to me that however excellent the design may be in the drawing office, when the engines are handed over to the running shed, unless they fulfil certain things, they cannot be classed as a success. The engine must be able to maintain a full head of steam and keep time working trains of maximum loads under the most adverse weather conditions, and most important of all is the availability of the engines for traffic. If, owing to defects booked by drivers, the engines are frequently out of traffic, they cannot be classed as a success. Mr. Selby quoted a mass of figures regarding the-performance of the compound locomotive. I should like to from my personal experience with the Gresley Pacific high-pressure simple engines that we have got down to 3.07 lbs. per draw-bar horse-power hour, which is a very good figure dealing with heavy trains and compares favourably with the rather doubtful figures of Selby, who has admitted so far as the coal consumption figures are concerned, they are calcuiated figures and not actual. . The coal consumption is the main point and not so much the water; the latter does not cost very much, but an engine heavy in coal consumption cannot be considered a success. In his comparisuns, I am sorry Selby has not taken the section of line between Edinburgh and York, rather than between King’s Cross and Leeds, as on the former we have worse gradients that those shown in the illustrations. The Pacifics are working sleeping car trains of over 500 tons through to York from Edinburgh and from Newcastle through to King’s Cross, and on the North Section have to go up one long gradient of I in 96 at an average speed of 35 m.p.h. My opinion is that if we have a perfectly reliable engine low in coal consumption without going in for the compound type, with the added advantage of less repair work, it would be a mistake to go in for compounding. To quote one case, we have a Pacific engine which worked 55 consecutive days covering 28,830 miles, an average of 524 miles per day without practically a key being put on the engine. From what I have seen of engines in France they ceem to me nothing but a mass of steam and certainly gave the impression that repairs must be pretty heavy. Perhaps Mr. Selby will say something about this. I should like to know whether it is the general practice to fit engines in France with steam chest pressure gauges in the cab.; W.W. MacArthur (114-15); J.W. Hobson (115-16).
Communication from F.W. Brewer Volume 21 pp. 311-12:
I am not sure that A. C. Carr is right in saying that India was the birth-place of the four-cylinder compound locomotive. The Sind, Punjab and Delhi Railway had such an engine in 1884, but the Boston and Albany Railroad of America are credited with having built (or tried) a four-cylinder compound in 1883. I have not, however, been able to trace any details of this alleged early experiment. The first de Glehn compound was turned out in 1883. It had two pairs of independent driving wheels, 6ft. 11¼in. in diameter. The two h.p. cylinders were approximately 13in. by 24in., and the two l.p. cylinders about 18½in. by 24in. The boiler pressure was 1741b. per sq. in. in working order, and the engine weighed 37¾ tons. All of the de Glehns " which followed had, of course. coupling-rods.
With reference to Mr. J. R. Bazin's remarks (pp. 99 and 100) it should be stated that Mr. H. A. Ivatt designed two four-cylinder " Atlantic " type compounds, one having been constructed at Doncaster subsequently to the road trials mentioned by Mr. Bazin. The first, No 292, was put into service in March, 1905, and the second, No. 1421 (converted to a simple by Mr. H. N. Gresley in 1920), in August, 1907. The road tests in question were carried out in 1906, with No. 292, compound, No. 294, simple, and the Vulcan Foundry " de Glehn," No. 1300. All three engines were 4-4-2s with 6ft. 8in. wheels, and 200 lb. pressure. The cylinder dimensions were :-
. No. 292. No. 294. No. 1300. High-pressure ... 13in. by 20in. 18qin. by 24in. 14in. by 26in. Low-Pressure ... 16in. by 26in. - 23in. by 26in. Ratio, H.P. to L.P. ... 1:1:96 - 1 :1:
27 In the case of No. 292, Walschaerts gear was employed for the h.p. cylinders (which were outside the frames), and the Stephenson motion for the l.p. cylinders. The valves had 1/8in. inside clearance, as also had the valves of the simple '' Atlantic," No. 294, but not those of the Vulcan engine, No. 1300. The latter, by the way, had Walschaerts gear throughout. This engine had been put into traffic in July, 1905, having been preceded in May of that year by No. 294. The competing locomotives were thus of practically identical ages. For the purposes of the trials, three sets of men worked these engines for three weeks at a time, on the same group of trains, and each set of men drove each engine in turn for the period stated. As regards the coal consumption per train mile, No. 292 burnt 43.98lb; No. 294, 45.31lb; and No. 1300, 45.841b. In the matter of total costs, for coal, oil and repairs, taken together, the simple Atlantic came out best, the figures, in pence, being 2.88 for No. 294, 2.91 for No. 292, and 3.125 for No. 1300. The test runs were made between King's Cross and Doncaster, and vice versa Like No. 1300, the Doncaster-built compound No. 292 had a divided drive, but the h.p. cylinders were arranged at the front, and not, as in the Vulcan engine, in an intermediate position. It was fitted with a change valve on the l.p. steam chest by means of which the engine could at any time be worked as a simple.
Mr. Ivatt's second four-cylinder 4-4-2 compound locomotive on the G. N. Railway, No. 1421, had 13in. by 20in. h.p., and 18in. by 26in. l.p., cylinders (the latter being 2in. larger in diameter than those of No. 292), and the valves were all operated by Walschaerts gear. The cylinders were disposed as in No. 292, but the l.p. crank-axle of No.1421 was of Mr. Ivatt's patent balanced type. If the two North Eastern four-cylinder " Smith" compounds, Nos. 730 and 731, were really good engines (and I have always understood such to have been the case), the fact that they were patent " engines ought not necessarily to have deterred the development of the Smith system. As to the reducing and change valves of the first five Midland Railway, three-cylinder compounds (of 1901-3) having caused trouble, the similar devices fitted to the Great Central Railway Smith compound, which engines were built in 1905-6, were, I was officially informed a year or so ago, still in use. The details of all of Mr. W. M. Smith's compound locomotives, whether of the triple-cylinder or of the four-cylinder order, were worked out by him with no little care and foresight, evidence of which is afforded by the retention of the respective proportions of the h.p. and 1.p. cylinders as finally decided upon by Mr. Smith thirty years ago. An official test of one of the then Johnson-Smith compounds on the Midland Railway in 1902, showed that with a light load, 160 tons, the coal consumption was 23.31b. per mile, and 2.16lb. per i.h.p.-hour, while the water consumption per h.p.-hour was 22.5lb. This engine, like the four others of the same batch, had a boiler pressure of 1951b. per R. M. Deeley, Johnson's successor, used 220lb., but the pressure adopted by Sir Henry Fowler in 1924, for new engines, was 200lb.

Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the Newcastle Centre (Session 1930-31), was held at the Central Station Hotel, Newcastle-on-Tyne, on Wednesday 10 December 1930, at 7.15 pm., B. Irving presiding. Mr. E. W. Selby read his Paper on Compound Locomotives, illustrated by lantern slides, and this was afterwards discussed..

Gresham, J.N. (Paper No. 258)
Live steam injector practice. 336-8. Disc.: 358-65.
Paper prepared at short notice was virtually a resumé of Mr. Gresham’s paper, “The Theory and Practice of Steam Jet Instruments,” read in Manchcster and London in 1923, and published in Paper No. 141 Journal, Vol. XIII, page 407. It was supplemented by the addition of some new material and information, which had not previously been communicatcd to any society, relating to the “Automatic Delivery Water Heater,” as shown by drawings Nos. 10608 and 10580. The latter shows the “ Heater ” combined in one instrument with a “ No. 9 Feed Heating Injector,” and as fitted on the new L.N.E. Rly. high-pressure locomotive.
Discussion: Mr. G.A. Musgrave (358-9) stated that the Author has mentioned the fact that a kind of, injector “ booster ” arrangement is now made to deliver hot water into a boiler having a pressure of 400 or 500 Ibs. per sq. in. ‘This injector is, according to the Author, fitted on the last new engine built to Mr. Gresley’s design. It will be interesting to know how this injector performs its task under ordinary working conditions. E.W. Selby (342); T.H. Sanders (340) and L.W.R. Robinson (344)

Grime, T. (Paper No. 259)
The development of the geared steam locomotive. 347-77. Disc.: 377-410.
Presented at Fifth Ordinary General Meeting of the 1929-30 Session held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, 30 January, 1930, at 6 p.m., Mr. J. R. Bazin, President of the Institution, occupying the chair.
The combination of the geared engine and high-pressure boiler in conjunction with individual axle driving for high-speed work, or with rod drive in the case of general. duty engines (as exemplified in the Swiss Locomotive Works locomotive) appears to the Author to represent the most promising line of steam locomotive development, offering as it does the advantages of the ordinary steam locomotive as regards flexibility whilst reducing the costs of boiler and engine maintenance, relieving the stresses on the track and enabling a much more powcrful unit to be constructed within the limitations of loading gauge and weight.
Bazin (377-8) noted Gresley's and Fowler's work on high pressure locomotives; D.W. Sanford (378-81) noted the effect of hammer blow and the Bridge Stress Committee; P.C. Dewhurst (381-3); W.A. Lelean (384) commented on hammer blow; J.W. Beaumont (384-5); H. Kelway-Bamber (385-6); K.W. Willans (386-7) difficulties experienced with Webb compounds starting away from Rugby station; F.W. Hobson (387-9); E. Graham (389-90);
J.D. Twinberrow (390-3) I have had the pleasure of working with the Author in thc development of a special design, and I am also particularly interested in the geared l,ocomotive, because it carries me back to my boyhood days, when 1 well remember a geared shunting locomotive which was employed for many years by the firm of Messrs. J. F. Howard, of Bedlord, and which apparently did its work very satisfactorily. Many of the standard parts used in the steani ploughing engines appear to have been incorporated in the design. This is an early example of a simple geared shunting locomotive.
In the early days of electric traction many engineers were very nervous on the subject of gears, and a great deal of time, thought and expense was devoted to the production of slow-speed motors so that they might operate directly, without the intervention of gears. 'The application of gears to ordinary multiple-unit work is a different matter, because there one has the spur wheel carried on the axle and the pinion on the motor, with consequent introduction of an impact element. In the case of a locomotive with a universal connection, of the kind indicated by th'e Author in his Paper, the gear is entirely relieved of impact due to the action on the road.
During a recent visit to one of the large repair shops in Switzerland, a question about the gauges employed to determine the wear of the teeth elicited the fact they had made such a gauge. It was produced from the office where it lay unused, for the end of another ten years would probably be time e,nough to talk about detecting the wear of the teeth. That disposes of the question .of the wear of the teeth in an application similar to' that indicated by the Author. Nor is this Country dependent upon America so far as the provision of satisfactory gears is concerned. I have had sotne experience of a very large number of gears employed under conditions where they are subject to impact and where it needs a very good quality of gear to stand up to the work. I also had some limited experience of gears applied to locomotives of up to 2,600 h.p., and in no case had these gears given the slightest cause for anxiety or given any indication that their life would not be a very long and possibly a happy one.
With regard to universal connections, experience has been obtained, as the Author is aware, with four different types, which have now been working under fairly strenuous conditons for some time, at speeds up to 80 m.p.h. in daily work, the average running speed over considerable distances being in the neighbourhood of 60 m.p.h. Gears that have done 70,000 miles have not required any attention, because the lubrication is automatic, and when down specially for examination it is impossible to detect any appreciable amount of wear. They may appear complex on the drawing board, but in operation they are delightfhlly simple, and should any wear occur it is taken up automatically without interfering with proper operation ; if there is a certain dackness it will not develop knock. The Author, therefore, need have no apprehension in applying the gears and universal connection in the method which he proposes.
Coming now to the steam locomotive as distinct from the electric, I think it very strange that the steel firebox is so little used in this Country. I well remember whilst I was serving my time making some designs for steel and iron fireboxes which were exactly on the lines of the copper boxes they replaced, and which did not succeed in having a very long life; but the Paris-Orleans Railway use steel fireboxes throughout, to the exclusion of copper, and claim to secure 1,onger life, with very considerable economy. Precautions are takep in the washing-out, which is always done with hot water. When higher pressures are used it is very necessary to eliminate the secondary stresses which are too often introduced by lack of attention to detail of design. In the case of the big American boilers, radially stayed, it is acknowledged that certain of the roof stays must necessarily be over-stressed by the deflection of the cylindrical part of the firebox shell. This tends to assume an elliptical form under the downward load on the roof of the firebox, and the stays, particularly those around the shoulders, have necessarily to defect with the deflection of the shell. In order that the bending stresses should not reach impossible values, it is necessary to put in a ball joint on the outer shell, in order that the stay may bend by simple flexion instead of having reverse curvature. If that precaution were not observed those stays would not last very long. In German practice, where the round-top box is used, the spreading of the outer shell is always prevclited by tly use of direct transverse stays, which seems to promise a better life than the practice of radial staying. Then again, in the arrangement of the radii of the corner of the platc, it frequently happens that the area of the flat shell-plate requiring support is greater than that of the corresponding flat plate in the box. There is, therefore, a resultant pressure outwardly on the stay which tends to bend the firebox plates and which is very often responsible for the grooves which occurred in the throat of the flange. With Belpaire boxes there is necessarily an excess flat area where the flat sides and the flat roof merge into the cylindrical barrel, and in all those areas, unless care is taken, there will be a considerable excess area of flat plate which exerts a pull on the adjacent stays causing local bending moments on the tube plate. This bending is often responsible for cracks extending across the bridges between the tubes, and it may be largely avoided by detailed study of the design. I t is found that cracks occur persistently in certain definite localities, often horizontally between the upper rows of tubes near the centre of the tube plate and vertically down each .ide in the neighbourhood of the groin, where the flat side? of the box is developed into the throat plate in forming the cylindrical flange to take the barrel.
I think that particular attention should be paid to these points when using steel, more particularly with the increasing pressures that are now coming into vogue.
It might bc of interest to quote some figures which have been recorded in connection with the high-pressure Schmidt locomotive in Germany, of which an example is now in service on the L.M.S.R. The coal consumption of that engine, calculated on thc horse-power delivered at the drawbar is 2.002 lbs. per h.p./hour, and the water 14.72 Ibs. I believe the Winterthur locomotive referred to by the Author, which, has been working for a considerablc time on the Eastern Railway of France, does not quite reach these figures, because it is a more simple proposition which has not all the refinements in the way of stage heating and stage utilisation of the steam. In its case the figures are, I believe, 2.2 Ibs. of coal and 14.84 lbs. of water per h.p./hour delivered at the treads of the driving wheels. I do not propose to say anything on the design of the express main-line locomotive illustrated in the Paper, because I think it is hardly fair to criticise small points of detail in a design which, of course, is only a proposition at the moment. The merits of the Paper are obvious, and all will agree that anything the Author takes up will receive very careful consideration as it is illuminated by that originality of thought which is so desirable in railway circles to-day.
A.H. Whitaker (393); S.J. Lucas (404-6) refered to both LNER and LMS high pressure locomotives; E.W. Selby (407-8) commented on water tubes; P.W. Bollen (413) asked a question about brick arches.

Fowler, Henry (Paper No. 260)
Some notes on the production of iron and steel details for carriage and wagon manufacture. 420-34. Disc.: 434-48.
Presented at Sixth Ordinary General Meeting of the 1929-30 Session held at Denison House, 296, Vauvhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, 27 February 1930, at 6 p.m: Mr. A. M. Bell, Vice-President, occupying the chair.
The machines and operations described had been taken as typical examples of what was being done by those responsible for the manufacture of carriages and wagons to meet the call for increased output on the metal side. The very nature of the material used has made it impossible to keep up an unbroken How of operations, as could be done with timber components, but these delays have been very considerably reduced by the careful grouping of the plant. The main ohject in any plant engaged on quantity production was to keep details on the move, and fresh appliances were continually being introduced with this object in view.
Sir Henry Fowler (444) NPL work on spring plates for motor cars (automobiiles)

Journal No. 96

Summer Meeting in Switzerland, 31st May to 8th June, 1930. 460-555.
Prersented almost as a "diary" with events recorded on a day-by-day basis: this included many visits and some important papers (listed as a series of Appendixes).

Monday, 2nd June. 462-72.
Visit to the Works of Messrs. Sulzer Bros.
Visit to the Swiss Locomotive & Machine Co.’s Works (group photograph with A. Schheideggcr, S.H. Whitelegg, L.J. LeClair; J.W.C. Armstrong, H.E. Gccr; W.S. Edwnrds, W. J. Tomes. B.A. Holland; T.S. Finlayson; F. Rurtt; A.M. Bell; C.E. Williams; Sir Henry Fowlcr; H. Kelway-Bamber; J.R. Bazin and J. Clayton: digital version reproduces well): Plate
Visit to the Oerlikon Works
Lecture at the Zurich Technical High School

Tuesday, 3rd June. 473-9.
Visit to the Power Station at Ambri-Piotta.
Visit to Swiss Federal Railway Works, Bellizona.
Banquet at Lugano

Wednesday, 4th June, 479-85
Visit to Amsteg Power Station
Banquet at the Grand Hotel Dolder, Zurich

Thursday, 5th June. 486-90.
Visit to the Brown, Boveri Works at Baden.
The lnstitution Dinner.

Friday 6th June. 490-2. 2 illus.
Visit to Interlaken and Schynige Platte: part of the journey, was through the interesting Brunig Pass, made by rack railway, from which the most wonderful scenic views were obtained..

Saturday, 7th June: the return home. 492-3.
The party left Interlaken by steamer, making a trip of nearly two hours along the Lake of Thun to Thun, where they entrained for Berne. While on board the stcamcr Herr Scheidegger of the Swiss Visit Committee, informed members of arrangements made for their reception in Berne (see Appendix 15). The portion the train reserved for the Institution was made up of corritlor and slceping cars belonging to the French Northern Railway, and these cars remained available for the trip through to Boulogne.

Huber-Stockar, E. (Appendix 3)
The state of railway electrification in Switzerland. 499-532.

Schrafl (Appendix 4).
Speech by at Banquet in Lugano. 533-4. port.

Fowler, Sir Henry (Appendix 5).
Speech by Sir Henry Fowler, K.B.E., Past-President at Banquet in Lugano. 535-6.

Rohn, A. (Appendix 6)
Speech at Banquet in Zurich. 536-41. port.

Kelway-Bamber, H. (Appendix 7)
The President, Mr. H. Kelway-Bamber, M.V.O., in reply to Dr. Rohn. 541-2.

Bazin, J.R. (Appendix 8)
Remarks by Mr. J. R. Bazin, Immediate Past-President, in support of the President. 543.

KeIway-Bamber, H. (Appendix 9)
Speech by the President, Mr. H. KeIway-Bamber, M.V.O., in proposing ihe Toast of  “Our Guests” at the Institution’s Dinner. 543-6.

Denzler, O. (Appendix 10)
Reply at Institution's Dinner. 546-51.

Kelway-Bamber, H. (Appendix 11)
Announcement by the President, Mr. H. Kelway-Bamber, M.V.O., of Elections to Honorary Membership. 551-2.

Clayton, J. (Appendix 12)
Remarks by Mr. J. Clayton, M.B.E., Vice-President, at the Institution’s Dinner. 552-3.
The many wonderful achievements of Swiss engineers which we have been allowed to see fill us with profound admiration. We remember especially some of your pioneers in the world of locomotive engineering. What would the mountain rack railway locomotive have been without "Abt," whose invention made the surmounting of severe gradients possible? We think of the great work achieved by the Swiss Locomotive Co. and Messrs. Brown-Boveri in bringing to such eminent success the single-phase system of electric traction adopted by the Swiss Federal Railways and giving the Swiss probably the finest railway system of its kind in the world. Finally we have noted with respectful concern that latest rival of the old Stephenson locomotive, viz., the Diesel-electric locomotive, fostered and fathered by the pioneer firm of Sulzer Bros. in collaboration with such firms as Oerlikon and others mentioned. What finer array of talent could one desire? We salute them all, including the Swiss Federal Railways and its officers who have so kindly watched over us during our journeys and visits in this delightful country.

Schrafl (Appendix 14)
Dr. Schrafl's Reply on Election as Honorary Member of the Institution. 553.

Le Clair, L.J. (Appendix 15)
Mr. Le Clair’s Thanks on Behalf of the Committee after the Presentations by the President at the Institution’s Dinner. 554-5.

Scheidigger , A.(Appendix 15)
Remarks on steamer on Lake of Thun. 555

Ridge, Charles W. (Paper No. 261)
The testing of steel for railway purposes. 556-84. Disc.: 584-616.
First Quarterly Meeting of the 1929 Session of the South American Centre was held at the Gorton Workshops, Perez, on Friday, 12 April 1929, Mr. R.E. Kimberley presiding.

Harvey, W.H.T. (Paper No. 262)
Extended locomotive runs. 617-53. Disc. 653-76.
Third Quarterly Meeting of the South American Centre (1929 Session) was held at Mendoza on Thursday, 26 September 1929, the chair being taken by . R. E. Kimherley. In Argentina the question of extended locomotive runs, and consequent increased utility of engine power with a more efficient service, had occupied those concerned in the development and economical administration of the running departments all over the world for the past few years. Working costs were constantly increasing, due to higher cost of materials and rate of wages, without the corresponding advances in the rates of transportation to cover them. Therefore, from the standpoint of investment, it was necessary to get the highest possible use from the locomotive poyer available, consistent with the corresponding efficiency for the work performed. With the natural growth and development of a country, increased traffics, both in passenger and goods services, had to be catered for with the equivalent power to perform rhe nercssary duties. At the same time, the obsolescent engine problem had to be carefullv considered. and the advisability of acquiring new stock and the more efficient use of the existing must be studied.

Journal No. 97

Kelway-Bamber, H. (Presidential Addtress)
Activities and progress of the Institution and reference to modern locomotive practices. 681-7.
Opening Mecting of the 1930-31 Session was held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, the 25 September 1930, the President, H. Kelway-Bamber, occupying the chair.
Presented at the time of the Centenary of the Liverpool & Manchester Railway and mentions both the exhibition in St, George's Hall and the Pageant at Wavertree. Then refers to the Institution's visit to Switzerland and the President being impressed by Swiss electric locomotives. Noted that compounding had not found the favour in Britain which was found in France. Gave specific mention to Gresley's high-pressure locomotive No. 10000. Very brief mention of internal combustion locomotives.

Poultney, E.C.
Poppet valves as applied to locomotives. 704-6. Disc.: 706-15: 31, 80-4. (Abstract of a lecture).
Sixth Ordinary General Meeting of the North-Eastern Centre (Session 1929-30) held at the Hotel Metropole, Leeds, on Friday, 21 March 1930, at 7.0 p.m., the chair being taken by Mr. E. de H. Rowntree The lecture was associated with a visit to inspect D49 locomotives (with Lentz OC and RC valve gear) and a Sentinel shunter at Neville Hill Depot, Leeds:
Visit to Neville Hill Sheds, L.N.E.Rly.
In connection with the meeting held in Leeds on 21 March 1930 (when E.C. Poultney delivered a lecture on Poppet Valve Gears as Applied to Locomotives a visit was arranged for the same day to the Neville Hill Sheds, LNER, Osmondthorpe, Leeds, by courtesy of Major J.H. Smeddle, District Running Superintendent, J.R. Thackeray, Shed Superintendent .
About 30 members attended at 4.0 p.m., under the guidance of Mr. Thackeray and his assistants and found the following exhibits prepared for their inspection:
Locomotive No. 320, Class D49 fitted with Lentz poppet valves and oscillating cam gear and having 2 to 1 lever to middle cylinders. In steam.
Locomotive No. 352, Class D49 fitted with Lentz poppet valves and rotary gear. In steam.
Locomotive No. 322, Class D49 fitted with Lentz oscillating cam gear. Valves opened out for inspcction after a mileage of 78,000.
These engines, with their variations in the manner of fitting and working the poppet valves, provided much interest until Nos. 320 and 352 had to move out of the sheds to take their duty at Leeds (New Station). The visitors then were shown the following:
Sentinel type locomotive built for shunting work at sidings.
Equipment for more efficiently and quickly washing out locomotive boilers and removing sediment by the use of perforated pipes inserted through plug holes, which introduce jets of hot water into comers and parts difficult of access.
Improvements in econoniical firelighters made from old sleepers.
Method of increasing the output of a sand drier,
Improved re-railing ramps.
In the Ambulance Room the following were shown:
Cam followers from Sentinel car, after running a mileage of 57,000.
Various piston valve rings and types of piston rings.
Models of double-beat regulator valves.
Models of various types of valve gcar.
The visitors afterwards assembled outside the sheds and saw locomotives Nos. 320 and 352 pass on the main line, hauling their respective trains ex-Leeds Station to Hull and York. The party then entered a six-cylindered Sentinel steam coach of a modern pattern, and they quickly made the return journey to Leeds. The gratitude of the members was expressed to Mr. Thackeray and his staff for providing so interesting and enjoyable a visit..
Second Ordinary General Meeting of the Newcastle Centre held at the County Hotel, Newcastle-on-Tyne, on Tuesday, 21 October 1930, at 7.15 The Chair was taken by J.W. Hobson and a short lecture, illustrated by lantern slides, was given by E.C. Poultney on “ Poppet Valve Gears as Applied to Locomotives.” This was followed by a discussion. Vol. 21, p. 80.
Refers back to Poultney's brief description of poppet valve gears. J. White (80-1); C.E. Appleyard (82-3) queried whether oscillating or rotary cam poppet valves, and suggested oscillating for freight and rotary cam for express work.
C.E. Appleyard (82) The following points have occurred to me and I should be interested to have Mr. Poultney's reply :- Which type of gear, oscillating or rotary, gives the better results, i.e., permits the higher engine efficiency? Does the fact of using a type of valve gcar which does not Dermit of early cut-offs and late release react in a detrimental fashion on the results from the oscillating type of gear? Is the rotary type of gear intended priorily for new designs or can it be fitted to existing engines? The oscillating type of gear appears to be more wited for conversion work, since it is apparently operated by Walschaert or Stephenson motion.
Can some figures be given for the approximate difference in cost of fitting an engine with the rotary cam poppet valve gear complete against the fitting of, say, Walschaert and piston valves ?
A note has appeared in the Press indicating that the poppet valve gear, whilst costing some 2½ times the first cost of piston valte gear, gives 10% fuel economy. It would be interesting to have this confirmed if possible. In the oscillating type of gear, is the wear on the cams and bearings at all excessive due to the form of motion, which would appear to indicate wearing possibilities at one or two small points ? Does the rotary type of gear wear more evenly? What effect would wear have on the operation of the cam gears?
The Author: The relative thermal efficiencies of the oscillating and rotary cam gears depend on the condition governing the work of the locomotives concerned. It will be evident if the admissions normally employed are in the region of, say, 30 to 40 per cent., as in heavy freight service, then so far as the release point influences steam economy, there will be nothing to choose between the two gears, because both will release at about the same percentage of the stroke. On the other hand, if, as in express passenger service, the cut-offs are usually, say, 15% to 25% then the advantage of release at, say, 80% or 90% will be obtained, and economy obtained thrmgh the increased range in the true expansion of the steam before the opening of the exhaust port.
Both the poppet valve gears are equally suitable for new locomotives, and for conversion, but in view of the remarks made relative to the thermal efficiency obtainable with these gears, it follows that, when contemplating the conversion of freight engines, attention should be given to the oscillating cam arrangement, more especially if the engines have a well-designed valve motion.
The oscillating cam gear can give and has given good results, not only in fuel economy, but also in upkeep charges, and this latter statement entirely answers the question about wear of parts. One of the chief objects of either of these poppet talve gears is the reduction of upkeep charges, and when the rotary cam gear is used there is also obtained a considerable simplification of the working parts, which is naturally an advantage, and further, is of special benefit in the case of multi-cylinder locomotives, either simple or compound. On the question of cost, both gears cost more than those of the conventional type, but such comparison cannot be made unless the governing factors are understood and appreciated.
The increased costs are not such that the savings obtainable will not more than pay the interest charges on the increased cost of the motive power equipment. The Same considerations of course obtain when any improvements are contemplated for adoption.
Fifth Ordinary General Meeting of the Scottish Centre (Session 1930-31), was held on Thursday, 12th February, 1931, in the Societies’ Room of the Royal Technical College, Glasgow, Mr. G. W. Phillips, the Chairman of the Centre, presiding.

Kitson Clark, E. (Paper No. 263)
The diesel-steam locomotive: Kitson-Still type. 728-78. Disc.: 779-86 + 7 folding plates. 10 illus., 17 diagrs. (incl. s. el.). Bibliog.
This is the primary source as it includes an exhaustive analysis of the design, plus details of the test runs.

Gysel, E. (Paper No. 264)
Mechanical gears used in the construction of electric locomotives. 789-838. Discussion: 838-48.  30 illustrations, 6 diagrams
Ninth Ordinary General Meeting of the 1929-30 Session held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, 8 May 1930, the chair being taken by the President, J.R. Bazin
Traction on rails has niow for more thaa a century been itimately connected with the steam locomotive, the building of which is the domain of the mechanical engineer, and particularly the locomotive engineer. This, of course, ,-rlates principally to maini line service and not to tramways, suburban lines and underground lines, where steam has long since been replaced by electric current with efficient results. It has teen recognised, hon,ever, that under certain conditions the output of main line railways can be increased by means of electrification. and that certain facilities can be obtained and abnormal conditions be met by driving the wheels of the locomotive bv electric motors instead of by steam cylinders., A new field of activity has thus been created for engine designers conversant with the requirements of traction on rails
Discussion: J.R. Bazin (838) There are one of two points in the Paper which stand out very clearly, one of the chief being the position of the mechanical engineer with regard to the electrical engineer. So far as this Country is concerned it is a point which possibly has not come to any fixed determination. That is Inrgclj-, I suppose, on account o f the very small amount of electrification on our railways here, hut it is a point which will undoubtedly come very much to the front, and we as mechanical men need not at all despair about the future electrification of the railways, because it is no exaggeration to say that 90 per cent. of the electric locomotives are certainly machines which must be dealt with by mechanical engineers-and not only by mechanical engineers, but by locomotive engineers-men who know about running gear. I believe it is a fact that the Austrian State Railnays have come a very bad “cropper” through placing the mechanical man second. It is very interesting to notice that the position on the Swiss railways is reversed; the mechanical man there is placed first, and that is undoubtedly his proper position.
I would like to asli Gysel to give his opinion upon the different systems of electrification, of which there are three—direct current and alternating current, single-phase and three-phase. That is also a question which in this Country in the near future is going to be paramount. So far direct current has been adopted here. That, I believe, is largely on account of the fact that‘ody local services are being run electrically, but when it comes to the question of main-line electrification it will be another matter ; and any information which . Gysel can give on that point will be of infinite value.
One cannot help being interested in the different types of drive which hlr. Gysel has shown, and to see that the old coupling rods and connecting rods still remain. I gather that they are the most satisfactory. With steam locomotive engineering the drive seems to have been fixed by an act of Providence. It is the last thing ever thought about, and when one comes to consider the number of drives that there are in electrical engineering I think steam locomotive men should be very thankful that they have not had to solve that problem in the past. However, it is a problem that undoubtedly will have to be gone into very largely in the future, and . Gysel’s Paper will be invaluable in that respect.
It will add enormously to the value of the Institution’s already well-stocked library of papers. I am sure I am voicing the feelings of all the members when I say that we have listened to the Paper with the utmost interest and appreciation. Mr. J. D. Twinberrow: The second paragraph of the
A.G. Hopking (Communicatiion p. 848): I very much appreciated the privilege of hearing Herr Gysel on the subject of “ Mechanical Gears for Electric Locomotives,” and may I congratulate the Institution of Locomotive Engineers on such an extraordinarily good Paper.
It seems indeed unfortunate that so many of our steam locomotive designers were absent in Madrid, as most of the information that was given us should have been enlightening to them.
I was unable to stay for the discussion, but I should like to put the following questions :-
I. The height of centre of gravity is mentioned in the Paper. I think I am correct in saying that until the arrival of the electric locomotive one did not hear of the advantage of a high centre of gravity, and one would like to know whether the variation of centre of gravity height found in practice does produce appreciably different results in the matter of track wear
. 2. Mention is mntle or wheel slip and roeflicient of adhesion, but on English railways it is not uncommon to have long goods trains which are not fitted with continuous or autoinatic IJrakes working ove r gratlcs of 1 in 100, and it appears that if it is easy to design an electric locomotive to take these trains up grades at any speed that may be desired, it is quite possible that the speed down the grade may have to be limited to something less than that uphill in order to be certain that the locomotive brakes can hold the train up and bring it to rest. Certain writers on the subject have statetl that the coethcient ol adhesion between wheel and rail, bcsidcs being a function of the condition of wetness, etc., also varies with the speed. It would, therefore, be of considerable assistance if Hcrr Gysell could give any information from his own experience as to what this coefficient is at speeds varying between 30 and zero miles an hour.
Although a rerurd run of 516 miles per day for a British Pacific tj,pe of passenger locomotive compnres not unfavourahly with the figures given in the Paper, it is certain that this could not he maintained for ewry day of the week. It would be of interest to know what is the annual mileage run by some of the locomotives mentioned in the Paper, remembering, of course, that this is probably limited by traffic requirements rather than the capacity of the mechanical or electriral part of the locomotives.

Journal No. 98

Clayton, T. (Paper No. 265)
Systems of paying for work. 852-79. Disc.: 879-87.
Second Quarterly Meeting (Session 1929) of the South American Centre held in Buenos Aires on Friday, 26 July 1929, Mr. P. Sedgfield presiding.
In Argentina

Dewhurst, P.C. (Paper No. 266)
Some practical considerations in locomotive design for Overseas service. 888-906. Discussion: 907-17.
Ordinary General hIeeting of the Birmingham Centre (Session 1929-30) held at the Birmingham Chamher of Commerce. New Street, Birmingham, on Wednesday, 19 February 1930, at 7.15 p.m., the Chair being taken by Mr. R.G. McLaughlin. Meeting of members in Western Australia held at Perth on 29 May 1931: chair occupied by Mr. J.F. Loutit,
Design requirements particularly those connected with what may be termed “difficult” lines – that is railways with conditions distinct from those of the comparatively highly developed overseas lines like the Indian and Argentine broad gauge railways, with problems largely siniilar to British home lines. Most of the railways with which the Author had been connected abroad, had gradients of 1 in 33 to 1 in 25, with curves of the order of three chains, and on such lines locomotive design is quite a specialised thing, and particularly so if a narrow gauge is incorporated
Where there is danger of fires then a really effective spark arrester must be used--efficient ones can be made, in which case an ash-ejector must be provided under the base of the srnokebox precisely where the self-cleaning pipe comes in the other case. This ejector, which is fitted under the smokebox and discharges to one side of the line, is operated by steam, and it is customary to use it at a station after any long heavy climb.
Soot Blowers. One modern development of great help in keeping boilers steaming well despite continuous service, is the soot blower; this is an excellent accessory, as it not only saves coal, but enables full loads to be hauled which, due to dirty tubes, might otherwise not be.
Rerailing Jacks. Derailments are relatively more frequent, and the consequent obstruction to traffic more serious on overseas (single track) lines, it is important that the jacks supplied be of the best. It is also most important that they be sufficiently short that at their lowest position they can be got under suitable jacking places when the engine is derailed. Cases have been known where jacks could only be got under when the engines were on the rails, and in derailment a pit had to be dug to get the jacks into position, with the frequent additional complication that the ends of sleepers had to be hacked off in order to dig the pits.
Summing up, the following promineht points emerge in respect of locomotives for overseas:-
A locomotive designed exactly to fit all the conditions; not a compromise with some standard or other; plenty at boiler and a large grate area; bar frames for really heavy service; outside frames for less than standard gauge; power developed close up to the full possibilities of adhesion in order to haul maximum loads in fine .weather; ample bearings both for axleboxes and rods; last but not least, everything possible so arranged that engines can continue in service for days without going to sheds, and which can be dealt with for most jobs without necessarily going over pits even when they are at a locomotive depot.
Regarding design in general, and particularly for overseas, the Author considers it economically unsound from the point of view of a railway as a whole, that considerations other than those produced by the conditions of the line and services, should influence the designing; the exact relative proportions of all the principal features, generally called H ratios, n should be determined unfettered. Only after all this has been settled in the light of every known condition—and here is seen the necessity of a designer knowing all the local conditions—should the working in of details be considered.
It is strongly held to be more important tor a locomotive to produce the greatest amount of transport at the lowest expenditure to the railway as a whole, and to keep it out of the shops, than it is for it to be able to get through the shops quicker than others. A number of reports show, and it has been within the Author's experience continuously, that a higher cost for maintenance and repairs of the order of 50 per cent., combined with an increased hauling capacity of only 30 per cent. compared with other locomotives previously on a given service, has been bene- ficial to a railway as a whole.
In terminating, perhaps a semi-commercial aspect may be touched on: looking at the present world competition for the business of supplying locomotives, the British manufacturer in general appears lacking in personal experience in what is wanted in the younger and more recently developed countries compared with their European and American competitors. When it is a question of designs and quotations for locomotives to perform a given duty on a particular railway, their competitors usually have the advantage of some members of their technical staff with foreign experience, and therefore au fait with the general conditions, and even, possibly, with details of local conditions. It is realised that batches of 30 to 50 locomotives constructed to purchasers' complete detailed drawings are simpler to handle and appear a more profitable matter, but on the other hand the "maker-designed" or partly designed, locomotive has not to suffer such a grinding down on prices as does the "made to purchasers' detailed drawings" engine. It is felt to be out of keeping with the past record of British locomotive design that at present such reduced amount of work of the class referred to as now exists, should be mostly carried out by other than British firms. .

Wrench, J.M.D.
Chairman's Address. 919-22.
Delivered before the Indian and Eastern Centre on 15 March 1930, in Calcutta.

Humphries, J. (Paper No. 267)
Locomotive valves. 923-8. Disc.: 928-30.
Inaugural Meeting of the Indian and Eastern Centre was held in the Lecture Room of the Institution of Engineers (India), Calcutta, on Saturday, the 15th day of March, 1930. The Chairman, Mr. J.M.D. Wrench introduced speaker.
The espericnce so far gained with poppet valve engines showed an increase of power at high speed and the minor mechanical difficulties in the Caprotti gear had bcen eliminated, the maintenance of the poppet valve gear would be much cheaper than in the case of piston or sliclp valves. He pointed out that when contcniplating the conversion of existing engines to, poppet valve gear considerable caution should be exercised in selecting the type of engine to be converted, as additional stresses are set up by the increased power obtained from the use of poppet valves, especially at high speeds, and this factor should not be lost sight of.

Pettigrew, W.F.  
What others are doing in the Locomotive World. 931.
Seventh Ordinary General Meeting of the 1929-9 Session held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, 3 April 1930, at 6 p.m.: J.R. Bazin, President of the Institution, occupied the Chair.
A discussion ensued.

Yorke, W.D. Colin
A resume of railway repair shop machinery. 932.
Fifth Ordinary General Meeting of Birmingham Centre (Session 1929-30) held at the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, New Street, Birmingham, on Wednesday, 28 May 1930: S.J. Symes occupied the Chair. The Paper was illustrated by lantern slides and a cinematograph film, lent by Messrs. Alfred Herbert, Ltd., Coventry. The machinery described included plant for the smithy, spring shop, foundry, boiler and plate shop, machine shop, tool room and wheel shop. There was a large attendance of members and visitors, and a discussion took place after the display of illustrations

Beckwith, H.G. (Paper No. 268)
Locomotive repairs on the Buenos Aires and Pacific Railway. 934-1027. Disc.: 1028-62. 71 illus.
Quarterly Meeting of the South American Centre held at the Main Workshops of the Buenos Aires and Pacific Railway at Junin on Friday, the 11 July 1930. Through the kindness of the General Manager of the Buenos Aires and Pacific Railway a special train with Pullman car was provided, leaving Retiro at 11 p.m. on the 10th July. Eighty-six members travelled by this train. At 9 a.m. on the 11th, members proceeded to the Railway Institute, and the meeting commenced at 9.30 a.m. The Chairman, R.E. Kimberley, Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Buenos Aires and Pacific Railway, presided before a total attendance of 116 members and visitors.
The Buenos Aires and Pacific Railway endured extremely poor water. Laboulaye suffered water which was very corrosive to steel.
Discusiion: M.F. Ryan (1031): I would like to commence by congratulating the Author on having added another to the long list of very satisfactory and interesting Papers on the subject of boilers and boiler feed waters which have been read before this Centre of the Institution. In his opening remarks, Mr. Beckwith divides the troubles which have been experienced with boilers under three headings:
(i.) Feed water.
(ii.) Negligence whilst in running sheds or in hands of operating staff.
(iii.) Wear and tear.
but he’does not refer to the number of original “sins” with which boilers first enter into their active lives. These may be due to defects in design. Boilers may be put into service which are correct according to the text-books, but in which local effects hale not been allowed for. If the drawing office staff, who are responsible, would go out to the shops and study the state of the boilers that come in for repairs, defects due to faulty design could be detected and steps taken to overcome them. Another item not to be overlooked is the provision of suitable materials for fireboxes and tubes. If boilers are simply turned out without attention to materials to suit water conditions, the running sheds are bound to have trouble.
Finally we come to the all-important question of workmanship. Many failures have been caused by bad workmanship in the workshops. Unfortunatcly on the Buenos Aires and Pacific Railway several new boilers recently put into service have had to be withdrawn simply on account of bad workmanship. I am glad to say that they were not built in the Argentine Republic.
’There is an old saying that “the best way to clean a rabblt hutch is to burn it;” the remedy in our case would be to get away from the boiler and go in for Diesel locomotives. I do not suppose there is any other railway in the country that offers a more promising field for Diesel locomotives than the Pacific. By their introduction we would be free from boiler troub!es and expenses of carrying water from one end of a Division to the other and also the costly purifying installations u c are compelled to instal.

Dendy-Marshall, C.F. (Paper No. 269)
The Rainhill Locomotive Trials of 1829. 1063-93. Disc.: 1093-4; 1096-1106.  illus. (including portarits)
A hundred and one years ago there took place one of the strangest, and certainly the most momentous, of all competitions that have ever been held. It was a trial of strength betueen terrifying monsters, hissing, spluttering, breathing fire and dropping red hot cinders. Such is how it must have appeared to the crowds that came and gapcd with wonder, very few of whom had ever seen any inanimate thing move itself on level ground.
In the Mechanics’ Magazine for October l6th it is stated that the number of competitors was at first reported to be ten, and they had reason to know there were at least as many engines as this in preparation. If the above is correct, there were five competitors who did not come up to the scratch. One of them was O.W. Hahr, who gave notice in August of an engine to be offered for trial, but all traces of it have been lost. No doubt another was Edward Bury, who was at work on his first engine, the “Dreadnought,” but did not finish it in time. Perhaps Brown was another. His engine, which worked by means of the vacuum produced under the piston after exploding a charge of gas, had been tried in stationary form, in a boat, and a road carriage, but was unsuccessful. If he had thought of utilising the pressure of the explosion, it might have turned out differently. One would have expected Goldsworthy Gurney to have entered. He afterwards negotiated for the supply of an engine, but the directors were unable to agree to his terms. A Mr. Wright, of Edinburgh, had submitted a plan and description of a locomotixe in December, 1828, but nothing is known about it. The paper contains several excellent portraits and reproductions from Rastick's Notebooks and refers to John Kennedy, a major cotton spinner, and one of the judges..
First Ordinary General Meeting of the Manchester Centre (Session 1930-31) was held in the Engineers' Club, Albert Square, Manchester, at 7.0 p.m., 19 September 1930, Mr. J.N. Gresham taking the chair
Third Ordinary General Meeting of the 1930-31 Session held at Denison House, Vauxhall Bridge Road, London, on Thursday, 27 November 1930, at 6 p.m., Mr. H. Kelway Bamber, President of the Institution, occupied the chair.
Third Ordinary General Meeting of the Scottish Centre (1930-1931 Session) held on Thursday, 11 December 1930, at the Royal Technical College, Glasgow, the chair being taken by G.W. Phillips, the Chairman of the Centre. Mr. C. F. Dendy Marshall’s Paper, entitled “ The Rainhill Locomotive Trials of 1829,” was read by Mr. John Robertson, Member of Committee, in the absence of Mr. Dendy Marshall, and this was followed by a short discussion. (See Journal Vol. X S . , No. 89, page 1063). 11, 120

Centenary of the Opening of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. 1107-8. illus.
The President and a party of about 40 members assembled at Liverpool on Tuesday, 16 September 1930, and in the afternoon visited the Exhibition of Ancient and Modern Locomotives and Rolling Stock at the Wavertree Playground, Sefton Park, Liverpool, afterwards travelling on the circular railway in a train of first and third class carriages, similar in construction to those in use at the opcning of the railway, drawn by an 0-4-2 type locomotive, the Lion built for the Liverpool and Manchester Railway by Todd, Kitson and Laird, in 1838, being in all probability the first engine constructed by that firm.
The locomotive, after a life of 92 years, operating with great ease, was driven round the course by a Past-President of the Institution, Colonel Kitson Clarke. Later the great Pageant of Transport, depicting the progress of travel from the earliest ages, in which 3,500 men and women took part, was witnessed with great interest and pleasure.
On Wednesday, the 17th, the Exhibition of Railway Models and other interesting relics of a century ago was visited, the members being shown round by Mr. Gladstone, a relative of one of the founders of the railway and of the one-time Prime Minister. The party returned to London in the afternoon.
On Saturday, the 20th, the President, at the invitation of the Chairman and Directors of the L.M.S. Rly., attended a luncheon at the Adelphi Hotel, Liverpool and was present in the afternoon at a special performance of the Pageant, at which Sir Josiah Stamp complimented the 3,500 performers on the consistent excellency of their work under the most trying conditions of storm and tempest. On Friday, the 19th September, the President, at the invitation of the Manchester Centre of the Institution, was present at a special meeting of that Centre to hear a Paper on The Rainhill Locomotive Trials of 1829,” delivered by C.F. Dendy Marshall,
The portraits: John Braithwaite (Fig. 8 page 1076); John Ericcson (Fig. 9 page 1077); Timothy Hackworth (Fig. 12 page 1080); Nicholas Wood (Fig. 17 page 1086)

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